How to get a crack-smoking high price down to normal

If he owns it for $x it'll be tough to get him to take less than $x, why take a loss just to move it?

What is the market for the car? Just because KBB says $6k, does not mean it's $6k. Looking on cars.com a 71k mile 98 is asking $8900 and a 98k mile 99 is asking $9600. The one you want has 1/2 of those miles. 

KBB says a 2000 Honda S2000 with 17k is worth $20,200 in the top shape, I'll take 5 and flip them on BAT for mid 30's. 

KBB says an 04 VW R32 with 1800 miles is $19k. The one on BAT is at $45k....

if you think the price is crazy based on book value, you're fighting a losing mental game. If you can find others with similar miles for cheaper, buy one of those. Looking on cars.com, Auto Trader, and Cargurus, his price is not out of line from market. 

I would just move on. A lot of wasted energy on your part. 
 

Know when hold them and know to fold them. They are holding and in this case I recommend you folding. 

From my searches I found some for $6,000 but they were less than perfect high mileage cars between 160,000 and 200,000 miles. If you want a low mileage very good condition one the price is closer to $12,000. You might find a private seller somewhere who will sell you a nice one cheap but the dealers all know what their cars are worth. I think you are tilting at windmills here.

What people ask and what they get are two completely different things.  They positively tank in market value.

I can't find many good examples right now (which is one of the reasons I keep coming back to this one), but I have followed up on several. There was an 01 with 60k for $3800 that I missed because I couldn't break free to drive the hour to see it before it sold.  There was an 03 Super V8 (ultra rare, top of the line, $125k sticker) with 113k for $6800 that I negotiated $6000 on the phone, but same thing happened.  It was in DC and it sold before I could make it down there.

It's not just KBB, the market doesn't support his price.

Here's one that is 5 years newer with more miles for $8000, but worth $6000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/631430107579644/

Here is a 2000 with 68k for $5000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2568563490064894/

Snowdoggie said:

From my searches I found some for $6,000 but they were less than perfect high mileage cars between 160,000 and 200,000 miles. If you want a low mileage very good condition one the price is closer to $12,000. You might find a private seller somewhere who will sell you a nice one cheap but the dealers all know what their cars are worth. I think you are tilting at windmills here.

I wouldn't say that one conversation with the guy in April is tilting at windmills or wasting energy.

Just thinking about other ways to approach the guy to maximize getting a better deal during a second try at negotiations.

Oh that's a clean car! 

XJR's simply do not sell well for over 8k. The exception being XJR-100's which typically go in the low teens. 

Curtis, I thought you were looking for a supercharged XJ VP? Those are more rare and nicer than XJR's, in my opinion. 

99 Vanden Plas supercharged with 41k miles

Here you go lol

yupididit said:

 

Oh that's a clean car! 

XJR's simply do not sell well for over 8k. The exception being XJR-100's which typically go in the low teens. 

Curtis, I thought you were looking for a supercharged XJ VP? Those are more rare and nicer than XJR's, in my opinion. 

 

 

I still am, but I've only encountered 4 in the last 2 years.  They only brought over about 3000 of them for the entire production run.

yupididit said:

99 Vanden Plas supercharged with 41k miles

Here you go lol

Excellent.  Still a little pricey, but not far off.  I wonder why he doesn't advertise it as a SuperV8?  He makes it sound almost like a supercharged engine was swapped in.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

It's not just KBB, the market doesn't support his price.

Here's one that is 5 years newer with more miles for $8000, but worth $6000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/631430107579644/

Here is a 2000 with 68k for $5000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2568563490064894/

 

The first one is 3 times the miles, that's a huge difference. The 2nd one has bad paint, no sunroof cover, and is beat. You're not comparing apples to apples. 
 

He has a very clean, very low mile example and wants top dollar. Just because you don't think it's worth it, does not mean he's crazy. If I was a seller and you showed me those examples of why mine was overpriced I'd laugh. 
 

You sold a high mile well used Impala SS for cheap, does that mean the neighbors 22k mile, one owner garage kept one is worth less?

Just ran the VIN... regular VDP, not super.

Steve_Jones said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

It's not just KBB, the market doesn't support his price.

Here's one that is 5 years newer with more miles for $8000, but worth $6000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/631430107579644/

Here is a 2000 with 68k for $5000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2568563490064894/

 

The first one is 3 times the miles, that's a huge difference. The 2nd one has bad paint, no sunroof cover, and is beat. You're not comparing apples to apples. 
 

He has a very clean, very low mile example and wants top dollar. Just because you don't think it's worth it, does not mean he's crazy. If I was a seller and you showed me those examples of why mine was overpriced I'd laugh. 
 

You sold a high mile well used Impala SS for cheap, does that mean the neighbors 22k mile, one owner garage kept one is worth less?

As I said, there aren't apples to compare to right now.  I have been casually shopping for two years.  I'm pretty well versed in their values.  And, I'm not sure what the Impala reference is.  I sold it cheap.  The neighbor's 22k mile version would be more valuable, but not disproportionately.  I sold mine for $1500.  That doesn't mean his is worth twice its market value because of low mileage.  It's worth what someone will pay for it.

This Jag is obviously overpriced or it wouldn't still be on the market since February.

The one I really wanted was one Yupididit helped me find two years ago.  It was a green Super V8 in the DC area with low mileage that sold for $4000.  Went quick.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

What people ask and what they get are two completely different things.  They positively tank in market value.

I can't find many good examples right now (which is one of the reasons I keep coming back to this one), but I have followed up on several. There was an 01 with 60k for $3800 that I missed because I couldn't break free to drive the hour to see it before it sold.  There was an 03 Super V8 (ultra rare, top of the line, $125k sticker) with 113k for $6800 that I negotiated $6000 on the phone, but same thing happened.  It was in DC and it sold before I could make it down there.

It's not just KBB, the market doesn't support his price.

Here's one that is 5 years newer with more miles for $8000, but worth $6000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/631430107579644/

Here is a 2000 with 68k for $5000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2568563490064894/

 

The first one is from a dealer who is out to make money. Second one is from a private owner who just wants to get rid of it. Apples and oranges. I would jump on the second one.
 

Do you want to buy a car or do you just want to eff with dealers?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Just ran the VIN... regular VDP, not super.

That's odd as the engine shot clearly says supercharged and he mentions it in the ad. Something is up though as he says 3rd owner, Carfax says 1 owner. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

yupididit said:

99 Vanden Plas supercharged with 41k miles

Here you go lol

Excellent.  Still a little pricey, but not far off.  I wonder why he doesn't advertise it as a SuperV8?  He makes it sound almost like a supercharged engine was swapped in.

You could probably talk him down. 

Steve_Jones said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Just ran the VIN... regular VDP, not super.

That's odd as the engine shot clearly says supercharged and he mentions it in the ad. Something is up though as he says 3rd owner, Carfax says 1 owner. 

There were several possibilities of options depending on the year.  There was a supercharged VDP as well as a Super V8.  The first one was basically just a VDP with the supercharged engine option.  The Super V8 was the decked-out flagship.  So, it could have been optioned that way, but the VIN says it's just a 4.0L V8, not the supercharged.  

I've also found that Carfax is getting a bit more inaccurate these days.  It's not their fault necessarily.  Their information comes from public record and voluntary reporting.  If an insurance company doesn't report an incident, or if a state doesn't report a sale, Carfax can't do anything about it.  My SS was technically a 4-owner car even though I was the only real owner.  It was purchased for me as a graduation gift (in mom's name), then transferred to me.  Then I "sold" it to dad in the mid 2000s because I needed money, but he never drove it.  Then a year later I bought it back from him.  So it was mom for a couple weeks, then me, then dad, then me.  So the line gets blurred.  In reality, a one-owner car.  On paper, a 4-owner car.  Carfax thought it was a 2-owner car.

Here is the breakdown from Wiki.  The X308 had a dizzying array of combinations.  Note that this is worldwide production and not all of these options made it to the states.

Snowdoggie said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

What people ask and what they get are two completely different things.  They positively tank in market value.

I can't find many good examples right now (which is one of the reasons I keep coming back to this one), but I have followed up on several. There was an 01 with 60k for $3800 that I missed because I couldn't break free to drive the hour to see it before it sold.  There was an 03 Super V8 (ultra rare, top of the line, $125k sticker) with 113k for $6800 that I negotiated $6000 on the phone, but same thing happened.  It was in DC and it sold before I could make it down there.

It's not just KBB, the market doesn't support his price.

Here's one that is 5 years newer with more miles for $8000, but worth $6000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/631430107579644/

Here is a 2000 with 68k for $5000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2568563490064894/

 

The first one is from a dealer who is out to make money. Second one is from a private owner who just wants to get rid of it. Apples and oranges. I would jump on the second one.
 

Do you want to buy a car or do you just want to eff with dealers?

You're obviously missing the point.  I don't want to eff with dealers.  I avoid them because of the overhead and their greater need for profits.  I'm also not a dick.

I'll condense it for you.
- I have been casually shopping for the right jaguar for two years
- I found an excellent example of what I want at a dealer who has greatly overpriced it, even for a dealer... as evidenced by the fact that it has been on the market for 6 months.
- hey guys, how would you approach it to get the best deal?

From there, let's assume I'm not a complete moron.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

You say they are available for 6 - 7k, so go get one of those?

In reply to NOHOME :

It's not quite that easy for me.  It has to be a combination of the right car at the right time.  I don't make a ton of money, so buying a car has to happen at a time when I'm not disproportionately draining my savings.  I'm not poor by any means, but if I'm going to be buying a luxury car about which I'm passionate, I have to choose carefully - both because I don't want to compromise on getting what I actually want, but also because (without tons of disposable income) I don't want to buy a lemon that needs ends up costing me big.  I know that's always a risk, but I'm a savvy enough buyer to spot a potential money pit.

During normal times (when I work), I have an incredibly rewarding, but busy life.  I work 60-70 hours a week, so planning a road trip to check out a car usually puts me out of the running.  When a gem shows up on a Monday and I try to set up a meeting for Saturday or Sunday, it's gone before I can make the trip.  Now that I'm furloughed, well, my shopping just got a little more particular.  All the time in the world, but less money.

Picky is an understatement.  I turned down a Super V8 because it was beige.  I turned down an inexpensive XJR because it had a black interior.  I don't mind waiting.  If I were shopping for a Chevy pickup, I would just buy the first good deal that came along.  If it ended up needing a transmission a month later, oh well.  $200 for parts and a weekend of wrenching/rebuilding a 4L60E with a buddy can fix that, or for that matter, $700 pays for a bench rebuild.  I'm buying a highly-depreciated british luxury car with a mercedes transmission.  That kind of purchase is something that I don't mind waiting for the right deal.  A 5G-tronic is a $3000 reman or $1500 for a questionable used unit from a yard.  Just trying to avoid that kind of thing for as long as possible.

I'm in zero rush.  Like I said, I've been shopping for two years.  The one I linked in the first post just happens to be the closest example of what I want.  I would rather have a Super V8, but with only a small handful that ever made it stateside, it limits my options considerably... hence why I'm including XJRs in the search.

For a guy who drives a 94 Mazda and a 99 Kawasaki - with a combined value of about $5000, I'm making sure I get the right one.  I found one that I WOULD buy, but he has it priced poorly.

Think of this as a mid-life crisis car.  I don't really feel the pangs of the mid-life crisis construct, but it can't just be "any XJ for $7000."  An appliance car, yes.  I buy something that might need some cheap parts.  That way I can get it cheap, fix it cheap, and drive it until it is a pile of rusty flakes.  I want the right car this time, hence why I'm willing to spend 6-7k instead of my normal $2-4k.

You keep saying he has it priced wrong, but there are no others to be found? In that case it's not priced wrong, it's just not priced where you want it to be. Your budget is not his concern. When I'm selling a car for $10k and someone tells me they only have $6k to spend, I don't care, go look at a $6k car. 
 

Just because it's been on the market for a few months, does not mean it's priced wrong, it just means there's not much of a market for that car at the moment, someone will eventually buy it. 
 

I'd like a $50k 911 GT3, because that's all I want to spend on a toy, they all seem to be overpriced based on your logic...

I'm not saying it's not worth pinging the guy again, but saying he's out of touch when you can't show any other examples for cheaper is useless. Either one will show up, or he will get closer to your budget, but you can't force a guy to sell you something for less than he wants. 
 

Using your cheerleader example, she said no, and you keep pointing to other girls and saying "but she will go with me". The head cheerleader does not care, she knows why you're asking her. 

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/37XzMZex/2001-jaguar-xjr

Steve_Jones said:

You keep saying he has it priced wrong, but there are no others to be found? In that case it's not priced wrong, it's just not priced where you want it to be. Your budget is not his concern. When I'm selling a car for $10k and someone tells me they only have $6k to spend, I don't care, go look at a $6k car. 
 

Just because it's been on the market for a few months, does not mean it's priced wrong, it just means there's not much of a market for that car at the moment, someone will eventually buy it. 
 

I'd like a $50k 911 GT3, because that's all I want to spend on a toy, they all seem to be overpriced based on your logic...

I'm not saying it's not worth pinging the guy again, but saying he's out of touch when you can't show any other examples for cheaper is useless. Either one will show up, or he will get closer to your budget, but you can't force a guy to sell you something for less than he wants. 
 

Using your cheerleader example, she said no, and you keep pointing to other girls and saying "but she will go with me". The head cheerleader does not care, she knows why you're asking her. 

Oh my heavenly jebus, this is getting tiring. I appreciate the input, but how many times do I have to explaln this?  It's not that I'm telling him I only have $7000 to spend on a car that is worth $12,500. I'm saying that I have $7000 to spend on a car that is worth $7000.  I'm not going to pay nearly twice the value of a car just because someone else thinks it's worth that much.  I'm not asking him to give me the world for the change in my pocket.  I'm also not saying that no other cars like this exist in the universe.  You make it sound like I'm like some poor street beggar who wants a shiny car for whatever change my pocket can afford.  

All I'm saying is that he overpriced the car.  Period.  I don't have examples RIGHT NOW to compare for him, for you, for anybody. If I did, I'd be researching THOSE CARS and ignoring his. I'm saying that in the past two years, I have come across dozens of examples, and now some of you are trying to tell me I'm crazy and they don't exist.  1 -  man has car I like for sale, 2 - man has overpriced it by a large margin, 3 - hasn't sold for 6 months.... and you're trying to tell me I should pay $12.5k for it?  Fat chance.  Jeez.  Next time I find one to compare I'll make sure to take screencaps before the ad gets deleted so I have ample evidence for the forum members' consideration.  I'm sorry I don't have an affidavit to prove that I actually have a clue on pricing these vehicles.

This is the bottom line, and I will not attempt to explain it again.  In general, I can often find an XJR in the 99-03 range with anywhere from 30k miles to 150k miles for prices that range from $3000-6000.  He has a car that the market has set the value at around $7500 but he is hoping for a sucker at $12,500.  I didn't set the price, KBB or NADA didn't set the price, that's just what they're going for.  He can set the price wherever he wants.  Don't care.  I can wait for another one. But I will no longer try to explain this while some of you talk to me like I'm a child who doesn't understand money.

Thanks to all of you who contributed constructively.

Here's your plan.

Buy a Jag, any Jag (pay as little as possible).

Find a "Head" Cheerleader, an easy "Head" Cheerleader (as long as she is not a minor). 

Get the Jag washed and looking good - same with yourself (both to impress the "Head" Cheerleader).

Get a date with the "Head" Cheerleader and do whatever you do on a "Head" Cheerleader date.

Drop of the "Head" Cheerleader at her home and thank her. 

Dump the Jag - at a profit would be nice.