4 weekend trips to the track per year. Very little use outside of those circumstances. Grand Sport is a great package but price wise currently sits above the ZL1 (which supposedly has an amazing chassis) and very close in price to a c7 Z06. All three sound fairly bulletproof (possible cooling upgrades on the pre-19 z's aside).
What sayz the hive?
Any desire for a 2015 Z28. I would think that would be a better track chassis and has a similar drivetrain.
For four times a year I would find the nicest FRC that is fully prepped and completely sorted.
wearymicrobe said:Any desire for a 2015 Z28. I would think that would be a better track chassis and has a similar drivetrain.
For four times a year I would find the nicest FRC that is fully prepped and completely sorted.
Two reasons, maybe 3:
LS7 reliability is questionable.....
Looks/interior
alpha? chassis supposed to be fantastic, especially with a reliable 600+ hp at the pedal
Driven a c7 and feel much more comfortable at the wheel then previous gen vettes
Currently track an LS swapped BMW racecar, the idea of a push button start car that can lap quickly without much strain is appealing. Especially now that my two buddies are in C8 Z06's....
Not sure on the other cars, but most helmets wont fit through the windows in the Camaro... Might be an issue if you crash and cant get the doors open to get out. You'd have to jack around taking your helmet off before you could get out.
Just from a visibility perspective I far prefer a c7 over a camaro. I think its just a nicer cockpit.
SS 1LE in consideration?
For 4 track days a year? Either the Grand Sports or the ZL1 drive both first if you can. The vehicles feel pretty different from each other and preference will really dictate path. Both are fine for a blast around the track.
I can't speak directly to the Camaro, but I've owned a couple C7s (including my present C7 Z06/Z07).
TIRES. Oof. That's the big thing I keep coming back to.
The Sport Cup 2 tires on the Z are amazing, for sure. Holy hell, though, that car just eats tires and a new set is well north of $2,000. On my last open track day with the Z I probably did 25 laps and absolutely destroyed a newish set of rears and ate most of a set of fronts on a roughly 1:45 track with 130mph top speeds. Now, the grip is phenomenal but good god the tire cost is staggering. The GS wears the same sizes tires as the Z06 non-Z07, which means roughly the same cost for rubber.
After my most recent track day with the Z, the tire cost was staggering enough that I went and bought a whole other car to track rather than eat tires all the time.
On the street, the power from the Z06 is more or less wasted. You cannot really make use of the full travel of the throttle pedal for more than a heartbeat.
Cooling concerns are real on the Z06 but I've not had issues with mine, though I did do a Cordes blower coolant flush and expansion tank. The swap to a '19+ radiator isn't that difficult; I think Cordes Performance quoted me something like $1,200 all-in, if memory serves, if I had them do it.
It would probably be worth taking a look at the C7 Z51 Stingray with mag ride as well. That will save you some $20-30k versus the Z06 and get you a lot more accessible performance without as much of the tire bill. On the other hand, if you don't mind the cost of tires and you love the hard hit of a blown V8, it's worth driving the Z06 for sure. Note that both of mine have been the 7-speed manual: I cannot comment on the automatic. The stock shifter is not great. $400 and a few hours installing an MGW short-throw shifter is very, very well worth it.
gsettle said:Not sure on the other cars, but most helmets wont fit through the windows in the Camaro... Might be an issue if you crash and cant get the doors open to get out. You'd have to jack around taking your helmet off before you could get out.
If you're hitting that hard, it won't matter much what you're in if it's a newer car. The airbags are going off, and you're not going out the side window anyways with the side curtain bags. You'll have to wait until they deflate, at which point the opening is bigger in the Camaro than pre-deployment.
The fact that you already own a race car tells me that you can probably work either of these cars hard enough to expose their flaws. In which case, the C7 Z06 cooling issues are a real thing. I have two friends that track them and they've been very frustrated at times. If you're only out there 4 times a year, it will be really frustrating if you have to cut sessions short for overheating. I've seen ZL1's out there, but usually with novice/intermediate drivers. The advanced drivers that I know with SS 1LE's are really happy with them. Plenty fast and super reliable. Tire costs with any of these will be pretty abysmal.
brandonsmash said:I can't speak directly to the Camaro, but I've owned a couple C7s (including my present C7 Z06/Z07).
TIRES. Oof. That's the big thing I keep coming back to.
The Sport Cup 2 tires on the Z are amazing, for sure. Holy hell, though, that car just eats tires and a new set is well north of $2,000. On my last open track day with the Z I probably did 25 laps and absolutely destroyed a newish set of rears and ate most of a set of fronts on a roughly 1:45 track with 130mph top speeds. Now, the grip is phenomenal but good god the tire cost is staggering. The GS wears the same sizes tires as the Z06 non-Z07, which means roughly the same cost for rubber.
After my most recent track day with the Z, the tire cost was staggering enough that I went and bought a whole other car to track rather than eat tires all the time.
On the street, the power from the Z06 is more or less wasted. You cannot really make use of the full travel of the throttle pedal for more than a heartbeat.
Cooling concerns are real on the Z06 but I've not had issues with mine, though I did do a Cordes blower coolant flush and expansion tank. The swap to a '19+ radiator isn't that difficult; I think Cordes Performance quoted me something like $1,200 all-in, if memory serves, if I had them do it.
It would probably be worth taking a look at the C7 Z51 Stingray with mag ride as well. That will save you some $20-30k versus the Z06 and get you a lot more accessible performance without as much of the tire bill. On the other hand, if you don't mind the cost of tires and you love the hard hit of a blown V8, it's worth driving the Z06 for sure. Note that both of mine have been the 7-speed manual: I cannot comment on the automatic. The stock shifter is not great. $400 and a few hours installing an MGW short-throw shifter is very, very well worth it.
Thanks for weighing in. Would probably put on some endurance style tires, eg NT01/RR/etc, in 18s to try and curb the incredible tire cost involved no matter which I ended up with. Brother with his C7 GS used to have good luck with NT01's and AR1s with the same setup on 18s.
Most the cooling issues I have read on the forums were fairly easy to resolve, but if they werent, I would be looking elsewhere.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:The fact that you already own a race car tells me that you can probably work either of these cars hard enough to expose their flaws. In which case, the C7 Z06 cooling issues are a real thing. I have two friends that track them and they've been very frustrated at times. If you're only out there 4 times a year, it will be really frustrating if you have to cut sessions short for overheating. I've seen ZL1's out there, but usually with novice/intermediate drivers. The advanced drivers that I know with SS 1LE's are really happy with them. Plenty fast and super reliable. Tire costs with any of these will be pretty abysmal.
Agreed. If overheating is still a concern thats not easily addressed with some minor cooling system upgrades to the LT4, that would sway me away from those options. My understanding reading the forums were that they seemed fairly bulletproof as long as the pre-19 cooling systems were updated....
Had an '18 ZL1 for a while and tracked it a number of times.
+1 on the helmet not fitting through the window opening. For me, this was a huge safety issue with the speed the car is capable of.
And it is capable of a lot. Amazingly good chassis. I can't speak to the 5th gen chassis, but I would definitely opt for the Alpha in any buying decision between a 5th and 6th gen Camaro. We had the 10sp auto, and it was very nearly PDK good on track. There were only a few times where it would downshift when a lower gear wasn't really necessary, considering the massive torque at any rpm. Be prepared to spend a lot of $$$$ on tires and brake pads. Camber plates will be necessary to get enough front camber. And make sure you have access to a large fuel supply at the track. You'll need it.
Many of these cars did not have the intercooler circuit properly bled at the factory, and air in the system will cause it to pull power on track. Dealer was mostly clueless, and the system requires special tools to bleed (dumb factory design), which the dealer didn't have (in 2019). Easily solved for a few hundred $$$ with aftermarket parts...
On the street, it's a fabulous GT car, though as noted above full power is usable only for a few seconds at a time.
We really enjoyed owning it, but had more fun on track in our Miata race car. It's just a way more analog experience, and honestly I would prefer a cage and full safety equipment in a car as fast as a ZL1.
I've not driven an Alpha chassis SS, but I really think a 1LE SS may be the sweet spot for this kind of thing...
Pricing new on the SS1LE doesnt look bad, even lightly used seems like a pretty slick deal. Just was hoping a used ZL1/Z06 for another 10k would keep me hanging around my buddies' new C8Z06's but thats probably a level not worth shooting for given potential reliability/safety/running cost impacts :-(.
Wonder how steep the upgrade curve is for a SS1LE without killing reliability once we have put the stock machine through her paces for a few years.
Olemiss540 said:Pricing new on the SS1LE doesnt look bad, even lightly used seems like a pretty slick deal. Just was hoping a used ZL1/Z06 for another 10k would keep me hanging around my buddies' new C8Z06's but thats probably a level not worth shooting for given potential reliability/safety/running cost impacts :-(.
Wonder how steep the upgrade curve is for a SS1LE without killing reliability once we have put the stock machine through her paces for a few years.
I did some Google-fu on this. In MotorTrend's testing with Randy Pobst driving, the C8 with Z51 package lapped Laguna in 1:37.83. The SS 1LE did the same lap in 1:37.77. I have absolutely no idea about tires, conditions, etc. but the difference between the two may be less than you think. Those SS 1LE's really go.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Olemiss540 said:Pricing new on the SS1LE doesnt look bad, even lightly used seems like a pretty slick deal. Just was hoping a used ZL1/Z06 for another 10k would keep me hanging around my buddies' new C8Z06's but thats probably a level not worth shooting for given potential reliability/safety/running cost impacts :-(.
Wonder how steep the upgrade curve is for a SS1LE without killing reliability once we have put the stock machine through her paces for a few years.
I did some Google-fu on this. In MotorTrend's testing with Randy Pobst driving, the C8 with Z51 package lapped Laguna in 1:37.83. The SS 1LE did the same lap in 1:37.77. I have absolutely no idea about tires, conditions, etc. but the difference between the two may be less than you think. Those SS 1LE's really go.
Wow. Could you imagine how fast it would have been with someone fast driving it :-)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Olemiss540 said:Pricing new on the SS1LE doesnt look bad, even lightly used seems like a pretty slick deal. Just was hoping a used ZL1/Z06 for another 10k would keep me hanging around my buddies' new C8Z06's but thats probably a level not worth shooting for given potential reliability/safety/running cost impacts :-(.
Wonder how steep the upgrade curve is for a SS1LE without killing reliability once we have put the stock machine through her paces for a few years.
I did some Google-fu on this. In MotorTrend's testing with Randy Pobst driving, the C8 with Z51 package lapped Laguna in 1:37.83. The SS 1LE did the same lap in 1:37.77. I have absolutely no idea about tires, conditions, etc. but the difference between the two may be less than you think. Those SS 1LE's really go.
Having owned a 3LT Z51 C8 I can see this being true. The C8 is wicked fast for a A/B group driver but it does pull power and use the electronics to keep the driver safer then a SS 1LE would do in my limited experience with them.
I am hesdent to even suggest it but if you are going to only track it and you clearly an handle this sort of speed is something like a Radical, or a used Atom spec race, not 50% cheaper to buy, cheaper and maintain?
I'd bet the difference is tires...the Z51 comes with Michelin PS4S ZPs, while the SS 1LE comes with Goodyear Supercar 3s.
Interestingly, the Supercar 3 (and 3R) comes in C8 Z51 sizing.
wearymicrobe said:ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Olemiss540 said:Pricing new on the SS1LE doesnt look bad, even lightly used seems like a pretty slick deal. Just was hoping a used ZL1/Z06 for another 10k would keep me hanging around my buddies' new C8Z06's but thats probably a level not worth shooting for given potential reliability/safety/running cost impacts :-(.
Wonder how steep the upgrade curve is for a SS1LE without killing reliability once we have put the stock machine through her paces for a few years.
I did some Google-fu on this. In MotorTrend's testing with Randy Pobst driving, the C8 with Z51 package lapped Laguna in 1:37.83. The SS 1LE did the same lap in 1:37.77. I have absolutely no idea about tires, conditions, etc. but the difference between the two may be less than you think. Those SS 1LE's really go.
Having owned a 3LT Z51 C8 I can see this being true. The C8 is wicked fast for a A/B group driver but it does pull power and use the electronics to keep the driver safer then a SS 1LE would do in my limited experience with them.
I am hesdent to even suggest it but if you are going to only track it and you clearly an handle this sort of speed is something like a Radical, or a used Atom spec race, not 50% cheaper to buy, cheaper and maintain?
Atom has crossed my mind, but my intermediate level driver brother will be co driving a good amount and he could use some nannies....
And with an atom, feel like I would be just trading a very fast race car for another from a non-factory maintenance perspective. I am not minding the thought of having a factory fast Chevy to flog, otherwise I can just run my 2400lb 400whp BMW and keep tinkering between events.
The SS 1LE is awesome. Keep in mind the LT1 isn't very reliable. Well it's generally reliable but has relatively common failures that are pretty much catastrophic. Dropping valves and killing lifters. If you are thinking about tracking one get a new one (if you still can) and follow GMs track schedule. They have been taking care of customers. I just wasn't comfortable enough with mine dropping a valve or killing a lifter to keep it.
Id be more comfortable with tracking an LS7 which also isn't known for its reliability.
What about a c6 GS LS3?
Opti said:The SS 1LE is awesome. Keep in mind the LT1 isn't very reliable. Well it's generally reliable but has relatively common failures that are pretty much catastrophic. Dropping valves and killing lifters. If you are thinking about tracking one get a new one (if you still can) and follow GMs track schedule. They have been taking care of customers. I just wasn't comfortable enough with mine dropping a valve or killing a lifter to keep it.
Id be more comfortable with tracking an LS7 which also isn't known for its reliability.
What about a c6 GS LS3?
The C6 GS is a great car but not perfect, the suspension should be upgraded and it'll need some cooling. The electronics are not nearly as sophisticated as the C7 (doesn't have the multi-mode track TC or the rev-match on shifts) but it's also pretty easy to drive hard on the track.
Now that I am shopping SS1LEs, looks like 40k gets you a 2 year old with 10k miles, 50k gets you on the showroom floor..... Which way to goooooo
Randy at Laguna:
C6 z06. 1:34.33
C6 gs. 1:38.3
c7 z06. 1:33.1
c7 gs. 1:35.6
the ls7 can be fixed Not too much $$ for the heads but the rods would be more But not everyone has issues I fixed my heads and so far it's running great even with 90k miles on it
but the Camaro would probably be a better street car
In reply to Olemiss540 :
10 large can buy many tires and brake pads.
In reply to Puddy46 :
But no factory warranty, which GM seems to typically honor with the 1LE stuff as long as you follow the maintenance schedule.
You'll need to log in to post.
