Hybrid repeat buyers

In reply to fast_eddie_72:

Red Barchetta Still one of the best driving songs...

Cone_Junky wrote: In reply to fast_eddie_72: Red Barchetta Still one of the best driving songs...

You know how some of the bands people listened to when you were in high school sound pretty bad when you hear them now? I've never had that experience with Rush. Still love to crank them up from time to time. My wife, however, is not a fan.

I saw a great documentary on VH1 Classic a couple of weeks ago. They had a whole section on how guys loved them but women couldn't stand them. lol. I completely understood that part! I had lost track of them and had no idea all the trauma Neil went though. Wow.

Ian F wrote: Like Leno said to James May when Top Gear profiled the Honda prototype hydrogen car: Alternative fuel cars won't kill the combustion engine - it'll save it. Much the same way the automobile 'saved' the horse. Horses are still around, but now they live pampered lives and used for fun, rather than work (the Amish notwithstanding).

Riddle me this: how expensive is it to own a horse? I'll answer for you: WTFBBQLOL you want how much? Too bad cars will eventually be the same way, the exclusive toy of the rich. And I'll never be rich, so that makes me sad. But hey, progress is everything!

If we didn't have a horse I could be driving a brand-new M3...

Horses make racing look cheap.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

Cone_Junky wrote: In reply to fast_eddie_72: Red Barchetta Still one of the best driving songs...

You know how some of the bands people listened to when you were in high school sound pretty bad when you hear them now? I've never had that experience with Rush. Still love to crank them up from time to time. My wife, however, is *not* a fan. I saw a great documentary on VH1 Classic a couple of weeks ago. They had a whole section on how guys loved them but women couldn't stand them. lol. I completely understood that part! I had lost track of them and had no idea all the trauma Neil went though. Wow.

My wife is <30 and loves Rush!

Twin_Cam wrote: Riddle me this: how expensive is it to own a horse? I'll answer for you: WTFBBQLOL you want how much? Too bad cars will eventually be the same way, the exclusive toy of the rich. And I'll never be rich, so that makes me sad. But hey, progress is everything!

I don't know... but I've met some quite non-rich people who own & keep a horse.

Besides... in some ways it's already starting to go that way. Have you searched recently for a mechanic who really knows how to work on an old car (carbs, points, valve adjustments)? I think finding a horse specialist would be easier...

I'll give you a ballpark estimate of $1,000 a month to keep a horse at a barn in Massachusetts.

That's not including annual shots ($250), bi-annual dental visits ($300), shoes every 6 weeks ($175), weekly lessons ($50 a pop).

Then there's the diet supplements that are $100 a month. Riding gear that I don't even want to know the cost of so I tell SWMBO to not show me receipts, just give me the hat that comes with that new saddle that was shipped from France. Those saddle makers have really good hats. (Pretty sure the saddle was in excess of $2,000....)

At least I got to buy a big diesel truck and point to the horse as justification. HA! WINNING!

The only hybrid worth a damn IMO is the first gen Insight. It was top to bottom designed to get good gas mileage, and little else. The aerodynamics, the weight (1850lbs!), the engine, the tires, the gearing, everything. Every other hybrid is just a normal car with a stupid engine stuffed in it by comparison.

They are even decently fun to drive, a lot like a CRX.

DaveEstey wrote: I'll give you a ballpark estimate of $1,000 a month to keep a horse at a barn in Massachusetts. That's not including annual shots ($250), bi-annual dental visits ($300), shoes every 6 weeks ($175), weekly lessons ($50 a pop). Then there's the diet supplements that are $100 a month. Riding gear that I don't even want to know the cost of so I tell SWMBO to not show me receipts, just give me the hat that comes with that new saddle that was shipped from France. Those saddle makers have really good hats. (Pretty sure the saddle was in excess of $2,000....) At least I got to buy a big diesel truck and point to the horse as justification. HA! WINNING!

The people I've met keep thier horse at their home. They live in the sticks to afford this. The medical/shoe/food costs don't seem out of line. I somehow doubt you're buying a $2000 saddle from France every year and I'm guessing there are "GRE" options as well for less.

One woman uses a beat-up old truck to tow her horse trailer when needed (she does reinactment stuff in VA). I don't readily recall if the other one had any transportation beyond her DD car (she is a teacher, IIRC). She would just ride in the woods around her property.

e_pie wrote: The only hybrid worth a damn IMO is the first gen Insight. It was top to bottom designed to get good gas mileage, and little else. The aerodynamics, the weight (1850lbs!), the engine, the tires, the gearing, everything. Every other hybrid is just a normal car with a stupid engine stuffed in it by comparison.

Agree 100%. I wish Honda would go back to being run by engineers and not by bean-counters.

Ian F wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: I'll give you a ballpark estimate of $1,000 a month to keep a horse at a barn in Massachusetts. That's not including annual shots ($250), bi-annual dental visits ($300), shoes every 6 weeks ($175), weekly lessons ($50 a pop). Then there's the diet supplements that are $100 a month. Riding gear that I don't even want to know the cost of so I tell SWMBO to not show me receipts, just give me the hat that comes with that new saddle that was shipped from France. Those saddle makers have really good hats. (Pretty sure the saddle was in excess of $2,000....) At least I got to buy a big diesel truck and point to the horse as justification. HA! WINNING!

The people I've met keep thier horse at their home. They live in the sticks to afford this. The medical/shoe/food costs don't seem out of line. I somehow doubt you're buying a $2000 saddle from France every year and I'm guessing there are "GRE" options as well for less. One woman uses a beat-up old truck to tow her horse trailer when needed (she does reinactment stuff in VA). I don't readily recall if the other one had any transportation beyond her DD car (she is a teacher, IIRC). She would just ride in the woods around her property.

That's the difference between somebody who has a horse as a hobby as opposed to somebody who uses a horse in competition.

It's cheap to just own a Miata, it's another story to competitively race one.

Ian F wrote:

e_pie wrote: The only hybrid worth a damn IMO is the first gen Insight. It was top to bottom designed to get good gas mileage, and little else. The aerodynamics, the weight (1850lbs!), the engine, the tires, the gearing, everything. Every other hybrid is just a normal car with a stupid engine stuffed in it by comparison.

Agree 100%. I wish Honda would go back to being run by engineers and not by bean-counters.

Indeed.

DaveEstey wrote: That's the difference between somebody who has a horse as a hobby as opposed to somebody who uses a horse in competition. It's cheap to just own a Miata, it's another story to competitively race one.

But isn't that more along the lines of what we're talking about as it relates to car ownership? Most of us who own "fun" cars have them and drive them for that purpose - as a hobby for fun. Notsomuch serious competition beyond the occasional auto-x. Even the wheel-to-wheel stuff I hope to do some day will be very much done on a limited budget.

I just thought of another family with horses. She does competitive rodeo (barrel racing?) and they did buy a diesel dually to haul the horse trailer, although she used their M-B ML SUV for awhile at first. They also keep her horse on their property in NJ. While his German car repair business does well, they also have 5 kids and live in NJ, so they aren't exactly swimming in cash...

You can also say that a person trading in a hybrid is MUCH more likely to buy a hybrid than a person that traded in a regular car. I suspect most people trading in hybrids for vehicles with conventional powertrains are buying vehicles in classes that do not have good hybrid offerings.

e_pie wrote: The only hybrid worth a damn IMO is the first gen Insight. It was top to bottom designed to get good gas mileage, and little else. The aerodynamics, the weight (1850lbs!), the engine, the tires, the gearing, everything. Every other hybrid is just a normal car with a stupid engine stuffed in it by comparison.

I want one with a dead battery or engine and throw away the hybrid stuff and stick a D16 in it.

93EXCivic wrote:

e_pie wrote: The only hybrid worth a damn IMO is the first gen Insight. It was top to bottom designed to get good gas mileage, and little else. The aerodynamics, the weight (1850lbs!), the engine, the tires, the gearing, everything. Every other hybrid is just a normal car with a stupid engine stuffed in it by comparison.

I want one with a dead battery or engine and throw away the hybrid stuff and stick a K20 in it.

go big or go home!

DaveEstey wrote: In reply to forzav12: Even at that rate it will take them 15 years to make up the price differential though. The Volt is the worst of the lot when it comes to paying itself off with efficiency. I think the Prius c should have the quickest profit time thanks to being priced around $19k.

This confuses me. What's the average price of a new car? Got to be pushing $30k at this point. So, yeah, a Volt costs more than that, but certainly not the most expensive car you can buy. I could go blow $40k or much, much more on a BMW or Mercedes just as easily. So how do you figure you don't save starting on day one?

fast_eddie_72 wrote: This confuses me. What's the average price of a new car? Got to be pushing $30k at this point. So, yeah, a Volt costs more than that, but certainly not the most expensive car you can buy. I could go blow $40k or much, much more on a BMW or Mercedes just as easily. So how do you figure you don't save starting on day one?

Exactly, it's not like the person buying the new Volt is cross-shopping $500 cars from Craigslist. They're buying a new car of one type or another.

In reply to dculberson:

They arent cross shopping a volt and a mercedes either. once you remove the electric gadgetry the volt is the most expensive car in it's class.

In reply to mguar:

British pounds?

e_pie wrote: The only hybrid worth a damn IMO is the first gen Insight. It was top to bottom designed to get good gas mileage, and little else. The aerodynamics, the weight (1850lbs!), the engine, the tires, the gearing, everything. Every other hybrid is just a normal car with a stupid engine stuffed in it by comparison. They are even decently fun to drive, a lot like a CRX.

A guy in Houston autocrosses one in HS with sticky tires and everything. I got a ride along at the last event. It was basically awesome. He's a cool cat for running the car.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: once you remove the electric gadgetry the volt is the most expensive car in it's class.

Gadgetry? It's practically two powertrains...not two video screens for the kids in the back seats!

Bryce

93EXCivic wrote:

e_pie wrote: The only hybrid worth a damn IMO is the first gen Insight. It was top to bottom designed to get good gas mileage, and little else. The aerodynamics, the weight (1850lbs!), the engine, the tires, the gearing, everything. Every other hybrid is just a normal car with a stupid engine stuffed in it by comparison.

I want one with a dead battery or engine and throw away the hybrid stuff and stick a D16 in it.

Why a D16? It'd only be a whopping 25hp gain and probably not that much better gas mileage over a K20 swap, which would be a 100+hp gain and still get 40-45mpg.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: In reply to dculberson: They arent cross shopping a volt and a mercedes either. once you remove the electric gadgetry the volt is the most expensive car in it's class.

It's class is different. If you remove the electric gadgetry it's not the same car. You took away it's party trick. We of all people should understand that there's a lot more to a car than numbers like that can explain. I mean, why is a Corvette so expensive? By the numbers, I can fit more people in a Honda Fit and get better mileage. But, uh, it's not the same. Take away the Corvette's powerful engine and it's the most over-priced American car made.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: In reply to dculberson: They arent cross shopping a volt and a mercedes either. once you remove the electric gadgetry the volt is the most expensive car in it's class.

It's class is different. If you remove the electric gadgetry it's not the same car. You took away it's party trick. We of all people should understand that there's a lot more to a car than numbers like that can explain. I mean, why is a Corvette so expensive? By the numbers, I can fit more people in a Honda Fit and get better mileage. But, uh, it's not the same. Take away the Corvette's powerful engine and it's the most over-priced American car made.

Ok well my first sentence still stands.

Would you cross-shop a Mercedes and a Volt?