I bought a $240,000 with ceramic brakes, why do they squeak?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=155887

SEATTLE — It may be painted orange, but Washington state law agreed with Ralph Gertz that his 2008 Lamborghini Gallardo Spider convertible was a "lemon" and made the exotic sports car manufacturer give him the full $240,000 purchase price back. Gertz, who previously owned the same car from the 2007 model year in yellow, called the Gallardo "wonderful" and praised its "unmatched" level of craftsmanship. However, he couldn't get satisfaction for his complaint that the brakes squealed, after repeated visits to the dealer in both Seattle and his winter home in Scottsdale, Arizona. Even after Lamborghini flew in technicians to work on the Gallardo, the brakes still were too noisy, complained Gertz. He said he gave up hope when Lamborghini concluded the problem was unfixable and stopped talking to him. The Washington state office of the attorney general runs the state's lemon-law arbitration program, which was updated earlier this year to be more inclusive. The arbitration panel ruled in Gertz's favor and said Lamborghini must give Gertz his money back. Washington's law states that if a vehicle has been in for repairs at least twice in 12 months and attempts to fix the problem have not succeeded, the customer can get his or her money back. Scottsdale's ABC station broadcast an interview showing Gertz behind the wheel, telling his story. Other Washington residents who have a similar complaint can read all about the lemon law regulations on the state's Web site. Inside Line says: Bad news day for Lamborghini. — Laura Sky Brown, Correspondent

Bad news for Lamborghini? No, Bad day for human evolution.

Listen people, all ceramic and carbon brakes squeal. Get used to it or buy a 1979 Chevy Caprice

I think he was just impacted by the economy and took the oportunity to get his money back.

At least taht is wht is smells like to me.

poor baby.....awhhh

well first off, those are racing brakes that will probably never reach its maximum braking capabilities because there has to be heat in them to work correctly.

Second, from what i have heard from my contacts in the Lamborghini know, all the dealerships are closing down and they are losing techs very quick and it is understandable if it has not been addressed. My closest contact says they didnt fly in technicians, it was a unresolved problem. The point is they are racing brakes and were designed to be used at high performances. Ive driven so many different types of cars with ceramic brakes on them and they have all squeeked...

I have a question about the Lemon Law. Understanding that it varies state to state, do you generally get to keep your "Lemon" and get the money back?

Rusty_Rabbit84 wrote: The point is they are racing brakes and were designed to be used at high performances. Ive driven so many different types of cars with ceramic brakes on them and they have all squeeked...

Actually I think the point is that anyone living in Washington should buy a new car with ceramic brakes. The state apparantly mandates that you get all your money back once you're tired of it... Does this "it makes a sound, I want my money back" full refund program apply to any component? Seems like anyone who buy a car should be entitled to a full refund.

I have a new idea for punishing stupid like this. Have Ron Jeremy C-slap the moron.

I'm not a violent person at all, but, if I was a Lambo tech and this guy complained to me, I'd punch him in the head so hard all he'd hear was a constant ringing in his ear.

No, you do not get to keep the car. Depending on what it was bought back for, it may or may not be able to be fixed and resold.

you would be suprised at some of the reasons why lambos are dropped off for sevices...

"It shifts too hard" - from an "E Gear customer'

"I put these 20" and 22" wheels on my Gallardo and now it doesnt drive" - from a rapper that put 20 inch wheels up front and 22 inch rear wheels on the back on an ALL WHEEL DRIVE CAR!!!

i remember a guy who had a Mucielago who locked his doors, went about his day at work, came out to his car and pulled at the handle so hard, it snapped the door cable that releases the door. Thats one way to ruin a Murcie Owner's life, snapping the cables on both doors, no way in unless you break the window...

HeavyDuty wrote: No, you do not get to keep the car. Depending on what it was bought back for, it may or may not be able to be fixed and resold.

Yeah, I didn't think you got to keep it, the thing that made me question it was the OP where the owner is sitting behind the wheel telling the story...anyway carry on.

Again, I think he just wanted the $240K back and found an excuse that worked.

Lemon Laws vary state to state but the general idea is that there must be an resolved defect that "substantially impairs the value of the vehicle to the consumer." I won a lemon law case with a vibration in the front end of a CPO Honda Accord after the dealer tried one half-assed attempt to resolve it and then told me to live with it. The arbitrator drove the car and I won. The best was the dealer refused to comply with the award until less than 12 hours before the state was going to pull their dealer license (huge multi-city Honda dealer) for non-compliance with the award. They were very polite when they called to find out when I wanted to pick up my check. I think Lambo had a bad lawyer and should have won - all ceramic brakes squeak, the arbitrator could and should have been convinced of that and because of that there wasn't an unresolved complaint with the vehicle. Of course, this all assumes that there actually wasn't something wrong with the brakes.

Rusty_Rabbit84 wrote: you would be suprised at some of the reasons why lambos are dropped off for sevices... "It shifts too hard" - from an "E Gear customer' "I put these 20" and 22" wheels on my Gallardo and now it doesnt drive" - from a rapper that put 20 inch wheels up front and 22 inch rear wheels on the back on an ALL WHEEL DRIVE CAR!!! i remember a guy who had a Mucielago who locked his doors, went about his day at work, came out to his car and pulled at the handle so hard, it snapped the door cable that releases the door. Thats one way to ruin a Murcie Owner's life, snapping the cables on both doors, no way in unless you break the window...

My uncle worked at Butler Tire here in Atlanta. Local 'balla' comes in with his Murcielago and wants new shooz for his whip. They tell him there are currently no aftermarket wheels for his car (at that time a true statement). He complains and says he knows the bolt pattern and that these certain wheels fit. They make him sign a waiver before ordering the said tire/wheel package. They install the wheels and torque the lugs correctly. Everything seems great til they back it out of the bay, at which time it SHATTERS both rear ceramic rotors as soon as the brakes are applied. Something having to do with how the wheel applies pressure against the hub I guess. Either way the 'balla' was furious and ended up having his Lambo trailered to the local Lambo dealer, which promptly told him that the wheels were incorrect and he was on the hook for new brakes since the warranty wouldn't cover them.

At $2200.00 each or whatever the note is.

Worlds biggest Bob Costas?

Lemon laws vary from state to state. Around here it's 3 attempts in 12 months and it must 'substantially impair' the use of the car. Brake squeaks and body rattles etc don't count.

Now, you go down to Florida; I understand there are two repair attempts in 12 months allowed except in the case of a safety related item such as brakes and airbags, then there is only 1 attempt allowed. I don't know if brake squeaks fall under that.

Regardless, anyone who buys a car with ceramic racing brakes and then complains about squeaks etc is indeed the world's biggest Bob Costas.

The Washington State Lemon Law was part of my Car Buying class that I taught up here. It has to be 3 visits, not 2, and the unresolved item has to have a "substantial impact" and safety is one of those items. Brake squeaks should not have won, but if the brakes themselves had an actual fault (ABS INOP, pulling, pulsation, fade, poor performance) than it would have been legit. You do NOT keep the car, nor do you get sales tax, tag, etc back. This guy and the story smell fishy as all get-out to me.

Edmunds is fluffy automotive journalism... And the "Inside Line Says" line is always stupid. How much does that job pay? I want it.

slefain wrote:

Rusty_Rabbit84 wrote: you would be suprised at some of the reasons why lambos are dropped off for sevices... "It shifts too hard" - from an "E Gear customer' "I put these 20" and 22" wheels on my Gallardo and now it doesnt drive" - from a rapper that put 20 inch wheels up front and 22 inch rear wheels on the back on an ALL WHEEL DRIVE CAR!!! i remember a guy who had a Mucielago who locked his doors, went about his day at work, came out to his car and pulled at the handle so hard, it snapped the door cable that releases the door. Thats one way to ruin a Murcie Owner's life, snapping the cables on both doors, no way in unless you break the window...

My uncle worked at Butler Tire here in Atlanta. Local 'balla' comes in with his Murcielago and wants new shooz for his whip. They tell him there are currently no aftermarket wheels for his car (at that time a true statement). He complains and says he knows the bolt pattern and that these certain wheels fit. They make him sign a waiver before ordering the said tire/wheel package. They install the wheels and torque the lugs correctly. Everything seems great til they back it out of the bay, at which time it SHATTERS both rear ceramic rotors as soon as the brakes are applied. Something having to do with how the wheel applies pressure against the hub I guess. Either way the 'balla' was furious and ended up having his Lambo trailered to the local Lambo dealer, which promptly told him that the wheels were incorrect and he was on the hook for new brakes since the warranty wouldn't cover them.

haha, i used to work at Butler Tire too, in Alpharetta, saw some of the same Ballas come in...

Most states' lemon laws only give you back the purchase price minus the wear and tear you put on the vehicle. My guess is used lambo's have a pretty deep depreciation in today's economy so...

I'm not familiar with washington law but perhaps their lemon law is different. twice in 12 months is certainly FAR more consumer friendly than ANY state's lemon law I've ever seen before. I wrote a seminar paper on Texas lemon law and it is similar to those mentioned above (3 or more attempts, defect substantially affects safe operation of vehicle, etc).

Keep in mind that the more money he gets back the better the story is. Don't depend on the media for accurate reporting.