I have a desire to supplement the fleet: A not Terrible Truck

Update: new trucks are out of consideration at this time. I'll be looking to get an older truck to act as a stop gap until a new truck makes sense again.

So, I'm looking to get a pickup truck. I can't do test drives in NC because of COVID, which is complicating things. Budget is flexible, but I'd obviously like to meet my needs for the lowest cost. 

The requirements are:
1. Transporting 4 adult sized people on trips 140 miles or so with a good bit of gear, including 4 kayaks. This is difficult with the 4Runner without using a trailer. 
2. Hauling dirty things, like mulch, dead deer, etc. 
3. Occasional towing in excess of 5000 pounds
4. Beach driving on sugar sand. Everybody gets stuck sooner or later. I carry recovery gear. 
5. Occasional long highway trips of 850+ miles with everybody and a bunch of stuff.
6. I am not afraid of high miles, but I won't tolerate rust at all. This is a long term thing; some trucks rust worse than others, but I'm having trouble keeping this straight. 
7. Nothing smaller than a 6 foot bed. 
8. Fairly modern. I want safety features, modern engine management, etc. Thinking 2000 or later.

Things I've gathered from the board:
1. Modern Chevy V8s suck and will bend valve rods for no reason.
2. Mid size trucks are equivalent to the full size trucks of the 90s in terms of capability
3. The Toyota Tax is real, unless you get very high miles on it.
4. I don't like Ford (because of the FWD 3.7 engine in the fleet) but their trucks are popular for a reason. The FX4 ticks all the boxes. 

A full sized 2007 or later Tundra ticks all of the boxes. The 1st Gen Tundras don't offer much more than my 4Runner beyond the truck bed. Oddly enough, so a 4 year old Chevrolet Colorado meets the requirements. The overall space limitation in a mid size on a long trip is a thing, but the gas mileage bonus might cancel that out. 

I'm really struggling with what to look at, and plenty of good trucks around here get squatted or get 22 inch wheels put on them, and I don't want to spend time un-berkeleying somebody else's aesthetic choice. 

Tell me how you'd solve this problem. I'm having a hard time finding issues with the truck below, but I can't help but think it's got more tow rating than I need.

Toyota Tundra

With the full sized Chevy and Fords, how much room is in the access cab for full sized people? Should I look at the Titan trucks? What am I missing, here?

How about Dodge?  I had a '96 Ram 1500 extended cab, 4wd, 383.  It was a good truck, not a great truck.  It was red, so of course the paint looked like E36 M3 after 5-6 years.  

Updated the original post- older trucks are less desirable due to lack of safety features.

I don't hate the 5.0 Ford's.

I’d buy the best truck you can find for your budget. Toyota’s are good trucks, but for the money, you can get something else significantly newer with much less miles. The Nissans are very good trucks. Their knock was that they sold basically the same truck for over a decade. There were some significant improvements in ‘08. They could also be had with a crew cab and long bed, but those are pretty rare. The Dodge is worth a look too, if a 6’ bed is a must. It has a really good compromise  between the other truck’s bigger cabs/shorter beds and shorter cabs/ longer beds. That said, I wouldn’t discount the other crew cabs just because the beds are 5 or 6 inches short of 6’. Your kayaks aren’t going to fit in a 6’ bed with the gate closed anyway, so what if they hang over a few more inches? Get a truck with the built in tie down channels (the Titan’s are beefy and work with common channel nuts) and build a removeable rack for your kayaks. The kayaks won’t care as much about the extra space as your passengers on a 800 mi trip. 

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) :

First whoever told you the valve rods?  Bent for no reason really was lying. I personally drove a 1997 Chevy 371,000 + miles with very little repairs. ( less than $1000 total  over a 20 year period). When rust finally got to it the engine still was strong used less than a quart between oil changes as was the original untouched transmission.  That in spite of massive abuse.  I've hauled home over 4000 pounds of granite in trips from the quarry in the truck bed. And countless trips from the sawmill carrying similar loads. 
Trailering I've pulled my tandem axle enclosed trailer all over the country over all three mountain ranges loaded with the race car, toolbox, probably heavier than the race car, spares,  and tires.  Timbers too long to carry in the bed went on a borrowed tandem axle trailer and I'm sure well exceeded 5-6000 pounds. 24' long 12x12 Black walnut and white Oak timbers tend to do that.  
I replaced it with a Ford  that at 60,000 miles has been absolutely flawless. With the Aluminum body ( after 2016) I don't expect a repeat of the rust.  So this will be my last truck. 
     Buy New,  it will be cheaper in the long run.  My Chevy cost me $1000 per year to own.  That counts payments depreciation and everything but routine maintenance. The Ford is on a similar path.  Take the list price of any new truck and offer them 80%. Walk  away if they want more than 81% of list. In fact don't go in. Do it on line. Then go in and test drive it before you actually sign anything. And no don't sign up for the extra's.  Dealerships usually don't make a profit on new trucks. The profit comes from the trade ins they buy. 
    Sell your trade in yourself and pocket that profit.  It's massive.  
      Interest rates are always higher on used trucks than new and occasionally there is completely free interest 0%. Insurance is always cheaper on new because most have safety features which dramatically lower the risk  of accidents. And repairs other than normal maintenance just don't exist at least during the payment period. 
     My bus route takes me past a Toyota dealership and I see just as many Toyota trucks hauled there on tow trucks as you see down the street at the Ford and the Chevy place.  
   One final point. Real world fuel mileage is very similar between a V8 a V6 and a turbo 4. My old Chevy got me 17 mpg V8 4x4 and the newish Ford gets me 22 MPG  going to and from work. (V8 4x4 )    
     Do get the flex fuel option. It's a $99 option. When there is the typical 40 cents a gallon difference  you'll save at least $5 a tankful even figuring in the 2mpg you lose  using E85. For me that saves over $250 a year in fuel costs. 

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) :

Right before corona or about a year ago, when prices were still reasonable I was very much considering getting a '08 or newer Nissan Titian.  They started in '04 but the '08+ got some improvements including bigger brakes though the '04-''07s can be updated to the bigger brakes.  

MPG is terrible but what you should expect from nearly 400hp and 5.6L liters of 9,000 lb towing capacity.  Reliability seems good with many 250k examples still on the road.  The engine manifold are know for cracking.  This causes noise but still drivable.  The answer seems to be aftermarket manifolds.  

With 2 real doors per side, the bed is only 5.5ft long.  If 1.5 doors per side then the bed is 6.5 ft.  In '08+ they made a somewhat rare long wheelbase version that then had a 7ft bed on the big cab and 8ft on the smaller cab. 

In general, the models from '04-'15, known as Gen1 seem to have a better reputation of reliability than the '16+ Gen2.

Really can't go wrong with a GMC Sierra with the 5.3.  Probably one of the most reliable truck engines out there. 

It used to be that small trucks, Toyota, Nissan, Ranger etc. were small.  Have you seen the newRanger or Colorado?  As big as my C-1500!

I have 4 GM trucks without bent valves. All of them are over 150k, one is more like 220k. 

Find the best cared for, lowest mileage example of just about any manufacturer in your price range. Condition > Brand. 

GM truck with the 6.0 gas motor. Pick the cab size and bed size that work for you. 

Raptor, might as well go all out. 

The flip side to it is stay away from the GM trucks that have the DOD motors. You can remove the DOD system with out much trouble but it requires the intake to come off amd some new parts back dating the valve train to the non DOD setups.  

If you're considering mid size trucks, I wouldn't discount a first gen Tundra. I think the size actually works really well for less than heavy duty use, noticeably less ponderous than a "full size" half ton without giving up much capability. The crew cabs are pretty spacious, having ridden in the back of my coworker's old truck several times. I will say the brakes on the early models (pre 05 IIRC) are pretty marginal empty, let alone with any kind of load, and the frame rust thing is kind of a big deal. 

The second gen Tonka Tundras, while certainly nice, just feel like too much to me - they're absolutely massive. My dad has had a couple of them before switching to a Taco last year, which he seems to like better. The Mega cab, or whatever the largest one is called, is for NBA sized people, skip that and get the crew cab, which is a much better compromise of bed/cab space and still comfortably fits my 6'3" frame in back. Also, these might be one of the very few vehicles that are better value new than used with the insane resale. I think Dad traded in the first for the second for  like $3k less than he originally paid after 3 years and 35-40k miles, and it needed half that difference in new tires anyway.

I've looked at a number of GMT-800s over the years and never bought one, but this would probably be my default choice if I were shopping with your criteria. The LS is pretty bullet proof and the rest of the hardware is proven GM parts bin stuff, but I think all but one of the trucks I've looked at has needed rockers and/or cab corners. Maybe you'll have better luck down your way. No experience with the 07+ generations.

I like the newer Rams a lot more than I expected to based on experience with older Dodges. Had one as a rental a few years ago and was impressed. Rode well, drove nicely, good brakes and plenty of power in the elevations of Colorado, and the 8 speed is a nice trans. That stupid rotary dial shifter, though, is the most asinine piece of switchgear and the kind of thing that would drive me nuts on a daily basis. 

Also had an F150 rental relatively recently with the 2.7 Ecoboost. Nice truck, and quick even with just the 2.7, although I found the general ergonomics and layout of the controls just didn't seem to suit me for whatever reason and the 10 speed almost became a distraction, trying to figure out what it was doing all the time. 

RE: the new GM Engines- Nick D and some other mechanics have posted about the newer GM Generation V (LT) engines bending the push rods (sorry I wasn't clear on which rods or which engine). 

Maybe the solution is to disable the DOD.

Based on the responses, I think you all see my problem: There are a LOT of choices that meet my requirements, and "buy the best one you can find" is difficult when you can't test drive them.

Buying new may be an option.

 

In every mid size comparison test I've read the late model Colorado/Canyon was rated number one. I don't normally put much stock in magazine tests, but every one said pretty much the same thing.

I own a 2019 Canyon crew cab, long box. The only thing that might not meet your criteria would be rear seat comfort on long trips. There is a significant difference in rear room between mid-size and full-size trucks. That's not a concern for my normal use so I've been quite content with the purchase.

Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) said:

Things I've gathered from the board:
1. Modern Chevy V8s suck and will bend valve rods for no reason.
2. Mid size trucks are equivalent to the full size trucks of the 90s in terms of capability
3. The Toyota Tax is real, unless you get very high miles on it.
4. I don't like Ford (because of the FWD 3.7 engine in the fleet) but their trucks are popular for a reason. The FX4 ticks all the boxes. 

I'm really struggling with what to look at, and plenty of good trucks around here get squatted or get 22 inch wheels put on them, and I don't want to spend time un-berkeleying somebody else's aesthetic choice. 

Yeah... #1 is a great big negative.  If you could kindly point out who told you that, I would like to slap them with a wet noodle.

The 87-95 TBI engines will run forever, mostly because they make about twelve HP and fifteen torques.  I'm joking.  They made closer to 20 hp.
The 96-98 Vortec engines will run forever and make surprisingly decent power, but you'll have to fix an intake coolant leak once.
The 99-up LS based engines are so reliable, I don't even really distinguish them from Toyotas.  I mean, these days it seem like they'll all run for 350k, at which point the rest of the truck is so wasted you don't care.

My take on Chevy.  First, I just bought one.  I have owned dozens.  Engines last forever, transmissions very good, interiors can be a little plastic-y.  Electronics can be ever so slightly finnicky, but dumb stuff.  You'll likely have to replace one DRL every year.  Ever see a chevy truck with both daytime lights on at the same time?  4.8L is cute and adequate.  5.3L is great.  6.0L is a nominal step up in power and torque, but it seems a disproportionate drop in MPG.  Holds its value poorly compared to the others.

My take on Ford.  I've owned several.  V8 Engines are a little wimpy, but they will run like a swiss watch for decades longer than you expect.  Earliest 4.6L will have a single coil pack and plug wires.  That's good.  When they went to coil-on-plug, it was still good, but they way they seem to function is that when one goes out, the rest are soon to follow.  Even if you determine the coil #4 has failed and you replace that coil, it won't be a week until another one fails.  So you replace that one and the next one fails.  The solution is to use a ford dealer scan tool to diagnose each coil and replace the one or four coils that look weakest.  Once you've paid for that service, it's just cheaper to buy all 8 coils and do it yourself.  5.4L tends to have one of two spark plug designs; one that refuses to come out, and one that comes out on its own.  Both situations are a lot less bad than you think.  They are both super easy fixes.  The Ecoboost has mixed reviews, and I've driven several but never owned any.  I love the way they drive, though.  Transmissions are very good, but a little more expensive to rebuild than chevy should you need it.  Interior quality of materials and fit/finish put the other two to absolute shame.  Ford's interiors last a long time and don't have the buzzes and rattles of some others.  

Dodge.  I've owned two; a Ram and a Dakota.  Ram I owned for about a year before I wanted to set fire to it and collect the insurance check.  The Dakota I got cheap I couldn't pass it up and I figured it couldn't be as bad as the Ram, but I was wrong.  Sold it two months later.  The world seems to love them, I personally DO NOT.  Momma said if you can't say nice things, keep your mouth shut.  I will offer one piece of empirical data.  The Dodge trucks that came into our transmission shop typically cost nearly twice to rebuild compared to GM/Ford.  GM and Ford transmissions wear out the clutches like any normal transmissions.  Dodge transmissions sometimes like to break things inside which makes them look like a grenade went off.  I had a Dodge junkyard on speed dial because it was often cheaper to buy a boneyard core to rebuild than to try and salvage what the customer had.

Nissan.  It's like 90% as good as a Toyota, for the price of a Ford.

Toyota.  It's like 20% better than a Chevy for 100% higher price.  Also, be aware.  There were several years of Tundra/Tacoma that had a recall for frame rust.  If you get one from those years, you are either potentially buying swiss cheese, or you are buying a repaired vehicle that should have been given an R title.  Toyotas are so far off my radar.  When shopping for a used Taco, I found multiple examples of the "factor of two."  If I found a Taco that compared in price to a Ranger or Colorado, it always had at least twice the mileage.  If I found a Taco with the same mileage as a similar Ranger or Colorado, it was twice the price.  It is most definitely not twice the truck.
 

With the full sized Chevy and Fords, how much room is in the access cab for full sized people? Should I look at the Titan trucks? What am I missing, here?

I'm definitely full-sized.  6'1" and 225.  X-cab compact truck, I can tolerate my knees in my face for a couple miles.  Crew cab compact or X-cab full size... not bad, but no long road trips.  If you really want sedan-type rear seat size for full sized adults for more than a short trip, full size crew cab is about your only choice.... which means good luck finding a 6' bed.

Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) said:

RE: the new GM Engines- Nick D and some other mechanics have posted about the newer GM Generation V (LT) engines bending the push rods (sorry I wasn't clear on which rods or which engine). 
 

Ah... gotcha.  I have no experience with the newer LTs 

I will say this as well.... So many truck buyers are disappointed with their configuration options.  They think of truck with a monstrous bed, then they think about kids and passengers and want a crew cab, then they realize that if they get all the "spaces" for the things they want, A) no one makes that truck, and B) if they did, it would be longer than a stretch limo and get 8mpg.

And this is why I got an AWD full size van into which I'll be swapping a 4x4 transfer case.  The drivetrain is identical to the truck version, but the box on top of it is so much more space for the real estate it occupies.  For the same wheelbase and less overall length as a regular cab long bed (or an extended cab 5.5 bed), I get 12' of cargo space and super comfy seating for 5-8 with more legroom than a hot tub.

I was just looking over your requirements... until you have comfy rear seating for adults and a 6' bed, you're looking at a really big truck.  For instance, this chevy half ton is a big truck, and it only has a 5.5' bed.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Best truck review I’ve heard!

I’ve had a lot of used ford trucks, no new. Only almost new was the 2011 F150 ecoboost my wife inherited from her dad. Awesome truck, before I totaled it. 

Toughest 1/2 ton truck I ever owned was my 04 tundra V6 AT. Far out towed the 99 Dodge Ram 318 it replaced. My only complaint with it was it wouldn’t do what my current 1ton will 

Way more than 20% better than the other makes in 04. 

But Toyota changed the trucks in 07, and the gap narrowed. 20% is prolly accurate. 

99 dodge 5.2 (318) AT... bought at 60K, sold at 160. Never got better than 13 mpg, had to run high test, only got 8 mpg touting a 26’ airstream. Worst truck I ever owned, although it was not expensive to maintain, and never left me stranded; just not a good truck for me. 

Other than the ecoboost, no advice for anything newer. 

Oh, and the 07 Chevy 1500 my wife had bought new right before we met was a decent car, but with the 4.8 and a 2.42 rear gear, it was not a truck. Struggled with a 23’ lightweight camper. 

Did not have any major problems, but had a lot of relatively minor thing start happening at 18K miles. By 35K, GM had still refused to have fixed them permanently. Basically told us “you drove it of the lot, why are you bothering US? berkeley off!!!”

my friend that needed a car, is still driving it, but getting it for the price he did, the little problems don’t bother him. 

I do appreciate all of the input people are giving me. It's mostly confirming what I thought, but there have been a few good insights. 

The most amusing part of this thread to me is what people are considering "new" or "modern." The LS truck engines can be 22 years old at this point. Don't get me wrong; I sometimes think that 1990 was 20 years ago, too. 

At this rate, I might wind up keeping my V8 4Runner, which does most of the things on my list well, except hauling 4 kayaks and/or messy things and adding something better at doing actual truck things than the terrible truck. 

 

I just went through this same thing in October. Almost the same criteria as you, except 2 adults and 2 rapidly growing kids. We live in Knoxville and I shopped from Nash, ATL, to Birmingham, and everywhere else within a 3-4 hour drive.

I was hoping to stay around $10k or under, and I wanted 4wd.  What I found was a lot of high mileage trucks no matter the brand. With the Fords I worried about the spark plug issues and found most 100-150k+ mile trucks on stock plugs. With the Chevys I found lots had rust somewhere, bed and cab corners seem to be the biggest, lots had replaced/rebuilt transmissions, and lots had been lifted with bigger tires. And the Toyotas usually had higher miles and higher price tags.   

I was really leaning towards an F150 cause I could get a newer lower mileage one than the other makes but the bed is small on those. I even went and looked at a F250 but it was way too big for my family needs. 
 

I ended up getting lucky. I found a local to me 06 Tundra, dbl cab, 4wd, from the second owner with 157k miles, only mods were a bed liner, one size up BFG AT tires, and a full Borla exhaust. Asking price was $13k and I got it for $11k.  It was more than I wanted to spend but the tires were almost new, and it came with the timing belt kit, so I figured after having that done it would go for awhile. I also took it to the Toyota dealer for the airbag recall and to check the frame rust. There is none, but i wanted it on their radar for the future. So far it has been perfect for my needs. We have done two 150 mile trips with it, and I've hauled a ton of stuff with it. Size wise it is big enough for use but not awkward to park or turn. The Tundra tax is real, but I got lucky. 

How about a trailer?