Ever since the '86 Mustang 5.0 front bar (1 5/8" solid) tore the swaybar mounts out of my original Fairmont, I've been using the little (3/4"?) Fairmont bar, and 400 lb/in front coil-overs. I talked to a fella who's been using bigger bars on Fairmonts that weren't rust buckets, and he says he's been keeping an eye on that, and hasn't had an issue. So, today, I put the big bar on. It's either gonna be fantastic or a hot mess at the autocross tomorrow. I can't wait.
In reply to snailmont5oh :
If I may offer up a contrary position: it could be both fantastic and a hot mess simultaneously. That would be the best possible outcome. 
400 lb springs on something that heavy seems light. Stiffer springs would take some of the job of roll resistance off the bar.
But no matter what, autocrossing things that weren’t made for that job is entertaining. Have fun!
I ran the TC(1 5/16") front bar on my Tbird with 400lb coil overs. If you are worried about tearing the body mounts off, grab a pair of reinforcements from your favorite fox body vendor.
gumby said:I ran the TC(1 5/16") front bar on my Tbird with 400lb coil overs. If you are worried about tearing the body mounts off, grab a pair of reinforcements from your favorite fox body vendor.
All the swaybar mount reinforcements I've found are for the later fox chassis cars, which have welded-in swaybar mounts (my swaybar mounts attach to the frame with bolts). I have been thinking about adding a little bit of metal to that area, though.
If you have a welder and some steel, everything is adaptable.
For autocross, I hope this bar is going in back.
kb58 said:For autocross, I hope this bar is going in back.
Not on a RWD! That would be a great recipe for getting one of the drive wheels off the ground.
In reply to kb58 :
RWD cars use big front bars. Reverse that for FWD.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:In reply to kb58 :
RWD cars use big front bars. Reverse that for FWD.
Yep. A good rule of thumb is that the big bar goes at the non-drive end and the drive end gets no more bar than necessary to make everything work. In some cases (particularly for RWD), that can end up being no bar at the drive end.
When I went to a really stiff bar on my s2000 the difference was amazing. When I paired that with ridiculously stiff front springs it was a revelation! It's really amazing how little suspension movement is actually necessary to make a car go around corners fast. Good luck, and don't be afraid to experiment to find a setup that works for you.
I've been pushing up the rear roll stiffness to try to get the front wheel lift in check with the 3/4" or 7/8" bar it had. Now I just want to see what happens if I try to deny the front suspension some movement. It'll probably just pick up the inside front more again.
At least it looks cool in pictures.
The jury's still out, but it definitely was interesting. At first, it seemed to actually be more tail-happy. It still pushes badly when you turn the wheel a lot. The push is always worse when the wheel is turned more. I always chalk it up to lack of Ackerman.
I'm gonna give it a bit of time, to see if it's a learning curve issue.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:In reply to kb58 :
RWD cars use big front bars. Reverse that for FWD.
For my Datsun 1200, for autocross, a large Rear bar was needed to make it rotate. For track events, that same bar would try to kill me with high speed oversteer, so it had to come off.
In reply to snailmont5oh :
If the inside front is off the ground, Ackerman doesn't matter anymore! 
In reply to snailmont5oh :
How much caster does the car run? Tons of caster can lead to a push at extreme steering angles due to excessive camber gain (although it'll tend to help the car rotate at lesser steering angles).
@ Knurled: Alas, it only seems to pick up the inside front when it's going fast. The tight, slow turns is where it sucks.
@ rslifkin: It has less than 5º if memory serves. I want more caster, but the chassis won't give it to me. Judging from where the tire wear ends, I *definitely* don't have too much caster (or camber, for that matter, but I run it on the streeet, too).
In reply to freetors :
Which bar did you end up with? I am getting ready to install my Ohlins coilovers but don't want to have to shell out $700+ for a Karcepts/Gendron bar
In reply to snailmont5oh :
Sounds like you may need to address Ackerman, then, if it corners better when the tires aren't fighting each other. In theory you should get a lot more understeer when lifting a tire, not less...
I remember from an old mailing list that correcting Ackerman by moving the rack back on the subframe was one of the key things to do when making a Fox handle.
Knurled. said:In reply to snailmont5oh :
Sounds like you may need to address Ackerman, then, if it corners better when the tires aren't fighting each other. In theory you should get a lot more understeer when lifting a tire, not less...
I remember from an old mailing list that correcting Ackerman by moving the rack back on the subframe was one of the key things to do when making a Fox handle.
I have a fixture to make this change to the rack. Just requires a mill to use it, no that I think about it maybe it could me modified to us a drill mounted fly cutter also. This and changing to 1996 up spindles moves the tie rod end slightly forward. If switching to newer spindles you need a bump steer kit or X2 ball joints, as the ball joint location moves down also.
Do any of you fox fans need some low mile tokico blues with matching springs?
These ones.
My 97 cobra has the big addco (1 3/8?) bar and H&R race springs. Lots of camber and caster.
yeah. controlling understeer is critical. If you initiate understeer, it will do it. If you dont, you can 4 wheel drift it pretty well. Large steer inputs arent your friend.
My setup came about from working with Sam Strano and works well for a non-invasive/ lower cost setup.
For now, I think I will be keeping the 1-5/16 bar, and trying to get used to it. Maybe I'll take the rack off, depower it, and see about taking some material off the back of the mounting tubes.
How exactly does one go about figuring out how much Ackerman to have?
@KB58 as someone who has autocrossed and road race a Datsun 1200 for 29 years I'm very very surprised that yours would need a larger rear bar. Even in H-Stock trim merely trailing the brakes or a quick throttle lift would make the car rotate. Again I'm very surprised as in stock trim the had mild oversteer.
As with all set up it can vary wildly between drivers even with the exact same car. I'm of the larger bars softer springs camp.
In reply to snailmont5oh :
What is the rest of the suspension type and setup like? Alignment? What kind of bushings?
Ackerman isn't really a normally adjustable feature of front end steering geometry. And also nobody can say what will work best because it's totally dependent on what the tires want. More than likely you will want some pro-ackerman (the inside tire turns more than the outside). Most cars will come from the factory with some amount of pro-ack steering.
What you feel as being a lack of ackerman is possibly not enough caster or camber. See if you can have somebody take some good head on pictures of your car at your next event so you can see what angle your front tires are to the ground.
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