ditchdigger wrote: Just test drive one before you commit to buy. I found my time behind the wheel of a 2.3-16V underwhelming. I prefer the 325is E30 for pretty much everything.
Yeah, I do keep hearing this. I've never owned a BMW, either, so those are definitely in the running.
The US spec 190 2.3-16V made 167hp and weighed 3000 or so pounds. The M20 powered E30's made 168 but were 2800lbs or thereabouts.
The 16V Mercedes also has a pretty nasty raspy exhaust note. I didn't like it at all.
Heritage, I haz it!
Love these cars. As a DD it's got to be a winner, as a track car, some variety of E30 is probably better despite the DTM heritage due to off the shelf parts and costs
Just had another thought on this. In size, weight, style and buy in price it looks very similar to an E36 M3, but it's way outgunned in the power, torque and capacity game.
Where did the 2.5 block come from? Did that block come in any cars over here so you could put your Cossie head on a 2.5 block?
Yeah, I'm starting to think that these things are cool, but that I would probably be happier with an E36 M3 for the price.
chandlerGTi wrote:JoeyM wrote: The 190e 2.3-16 cars were supposed to be designed for rally, but were released about the same time as the quattro. It used AWD goodness to turn the merc into a footnote.You should look into that further, that is not what they were designed for; however, after a season of kicking BMWs butts the m3 DID relegate the 2.3 16v to a footnote. The later 2.5 evo II is a bad ass piece of machinery.
IF you trust wiki (I know, big if) that is exactly what they were designed for
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W201#190E_2.3-16_.26_2.5-16_.22Cosworth.22
Mercedes wished to take the 190 E rallying, and asked British race car engineering company Cosworth to develop an engine with 320 bhp (239 kW) for the rally car. This project was known as project "WAA' by Cosworth".[7] During this time, the Audi Quattro with its all-wheel drive and turbocharger was launched, making the 2.3-16v appear over-matched. With a continued desire to compete in high-profile motor sport with the 190, and also now an engine to do it with, Mercedes turned to the Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft (DTM) (German Touring Car Championship) motor sport series instead. Cars racing in this championship, however, had to be based on a roadgoing model. Mercedes therefore had to put into series production a 190 fitted with a detuned version of the Cosworth engine. This high-performance model was known as the 190 E 2.3-16, and debuted at the Frankfurt Auto Show in September 1983,
AND....."Well, MB built them in response to the E30 M3....." The MB was developed to go rallying with Cosworth's help; car debuted at German auto shows in 1983; first year for the E30 M3 was 1986.
I've had a soft spot for them... the $7500 car would be better at the $4-5 range but I haven't been following the market prices.
I owned one. It is a car that I miss. It was purchased new by my neighbor. He drove it very hard for 14 years. I picked it up and drove it another 3 years. The only maintenance issue that I had was the self leveling rear suspension, it is easily replaced with a non leveling suspension. The engine seemed bulletproof. If I found one when I had the spare money I would buy it. If you have any specific questions please ask.
You can't see mine or my brothers friends although they are in front of my brothers 2.3 16v and a m3. I had a 951 simultaneously and preferred the MB. You have to drive them hard but they are very rewarding.
The cheapest ones I'm finding are around $7k. I'm not sure I can stomach that price.
There are a couple turbo cars that were developed by renntech(i believe) out there. Last one I saw changed hands in the 8500 range. My brothers friend used one as his daily driver for a couple years and had a beater 2.3 16v as his winter car. His is the silver/champagne color and has come up for sale a couple times since he sold it.
The car with the OZs in the above picture is the other one. He finished development of that one while working at AMS. They are beasts when well tuned.
Hope you find something awesome to replace the zo6!
Are there any resonably priced power upgrades or are is it similar to an S14 M3 engine where everything is $$$'s?
I think that what you have is what you get with them. I'd bet that it's actually MUCH cheaper to make power with the M3.
http://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/3178111276.html
I would totally rock one 
Woody wrote: http://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/3178111276.html
The auto ruins the car, also there were abou 2000 each of the two years they were officially imported. The auto was total import of about 900 iirc so they are much rarer but not very exciting.
how hard to swap a 5 speed in? And what transmission would you use?
Well, I'm going to be checking out the semi-local one this weekend. I also found a MR2 S/C for sale, but haven't heard back yet. There is a 1994 Miata for sale in town for $3500, but I haven't been able to look at it yet.
http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/cto/3062044740.html 
everything but the front bumper.
mad_machine wrote: My sister had a 190.. not sure what model.. but it had THE worst seats I ever had the displeasure to perch atop. You literally sat on them, they felt like they had all the cushioning of Concrete, and had absolutely no lateral grip at all. My uncle also bought one before going to Florida. He sold the car down there at a loss as he was not about to subject himself to those seats for the trip back
The seats in the 2.3 16 were made by Recaro.
Also, they had fixed the seats by the early 90's.
Interesting, I found some 350whp dyno plots - turbo, stock bottom end.
njansenv wrote: Interesting, I found some 350whp dyno plots - turbo, stock bottom end.
Yup, but head work ain't cheap and cams are ridiculous! The one on OZs in the above pic has 425 iirc and the other one had 400. That was wicked fun!
I think a good cossie head goes for around 1000$ so they aren't cheap.
I just took my car on a slightly spirited drive and I bet the 16v is a lot like my car, if it has the auto you put it in S not D, then you drive it around and the auto keeps the engine revolutions up. My car doesn't make any power below 2500rpm or so, you really gotta twist small displacement twin cam engines up to get to where the power is at. I read an article about the design of the 190e and the person who helped on the project said that the funnest cars to drive are small displacement manual tranmission cars where it comes down to driver skill/daring rather than all out power.
What I find funny about everyone loving on BMWs inline 6s is that mercedes built a 185hp 2.8l six in the 70s.
rotard wrote:ditchdigger wrote: Just test drive one before you commit to buy. I found my time behind the wheel of a 2.3-16V underwhelming. I prefer the 325is E30 for pretty much everything.Yeah, I do keep hearing this. I've never owned a BMW, either, so those are definitely in the running.
You really need to test drive a Milano too, they do look sorta weird, but I think you would like one once you drove it.
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