4Runner doesn't have a 7000lb tow rating. It's basically the same as my GX470, which has a 6500lb tow rating if you have the factory hitch.
A Cayenne or Touareg has a 7700lb tow rating, the V8 version of either can be had for under $10k and are actually pretty pleasant to DD. Gotta watch out for the maintenance tho, definitely buy the best maintained example that you can find.
Recently went through this myself. You could probably do what you need with a properly outfitted 1500 chevy taho, burb, yukon, or yukon XL. I had real trouble finding one without >150k miles and not beat to hell.
Expanded my search to include Sequoia and Expedition.
Ended up buying an 07 Expedition. It gets a bit worse mileage than the chevy 1500s, but has more tow capacity. I got a 2wd version without the 3rd row, but you can get them with those really easially. I was surprised at the actual tow capacity. With a weight distrubition hitch its rated for 9,200lbs (I think its dropped to 9k if you have 4wd).
Downsides, motor would be a bit harder to work on if something happens. (still can get them fairly easily in junkyards).
The thing is HUGE, then again I am coming from a miata as a DD and the biggest thing I regularly drive leading into this is a mazda 5.
My '95 12V Cummins 4x4 5 spd MT would get 20 mpg without too much difficulty. 22 MPG if I really tried. About 18 if I drove it without caring about fuel mileage.
Yes - there is the "Cummins tax" but at the same time, that tends to apply more to 4x4's. 2WD trucks tend to sell for a lot less.
I would be concerned about using a 4Runner (or any mid-size-ish SUV) to pull an enclosed trailer on US highways at speed. Mainly with its ability to keep the trailer under control with heavy cross-winds that can sometimes hit without warning. That's one area where it seems weight and wheelbase provide an advantage the Toyota or Porsche wouldn't have.
docwyte said:4Runner doesn't have a 7000lb tow rating. It's basically the same as my GX470, which has a 6500lb tow rating if you have the factory hitch.
A Cayenne or Touareg has a 7700lb tow rating, the V8 version of either can be had for under $10k and are actually pretty pleasant to DD. Gotta watch out for the maintenance tho, definitely buy the best maintained example that you can find.
"but for the first time, a V8 became available, the ULEV certified 4.7 L 2UZ-FE engine which in the US produced 235 hp (175 kW) and 320 lb⋅ft (434 N⋅m). In 2004, for the 2005 model year, the addition of VVT-i increased output to 260 hp (194 kW) and 306 lb⋅ft (415 N⋅m). Fuel economy is estimated at 17 mpg city, 20 mpg highway for the V6 and 15/19 mpg for the V8. Towing capacity is 5,000 lb (2,300 kg) on V6 models and 7,300 pounds (3,300 kg) on RWD V8 models (7000 pounds w/4WD). The 4Runner first entered dealer showrooms in October 2002 for the 2003 model year.[8] Three trims levels were offered, SR5, Sport Edition, and Limited. When it was first introduced the SR5 and Sport Edition models used gray plastic cladding and bumpers. Sport models also featured a non-functional hood scoop."
It's not the same because the 4runner is lighter 4200lbs vs the gx 470 4800lbs
codrus said:Personally I would buy a Suburban and a commuter vehicle and use each for the right job.
I live in a sub division, renting, wife gets the one side of the garage that isnt filled with stuff which leaves me one spot in the driveway. I already have the miata HPDE/racecar which is parked on the street. SWMBO will never go for 2 more cars putting us at 4 total with two that have to be parked on the street. Plus that would leave me feeling like an ahole and we are not supposed to block the mailbox's.
Jcamper said:Jaynen said:What are my options for something reliable foremost that can tow up to 7k-7500 and needs to be relied upon to do 15,000 miles a year in the 10k budget range? Needs to carry 4, 2 adults 2 kids, 1 in a booster, 1 in a harness booster
The difference between even full size pickup normal mpg of 14-16 and a 2500 burban's 10-11 ends up almost an additional 120 bucks a month at current gas prices.
Of note the difference between a 15mpg truck and a 45mpg prius would be 128 dollars a month so not enough of a difference in my opinion that buying a 5k burban and a 5k prius makes sense once parking/registration/insurance/maintenance is taken into account.
This would end up likely being a daily for me, I have daily'd a focus ST, Jetta TDI, F-150 Super Crew, WR250R, Gen 3 Montero, and a E-350 Diesel Benz so kind of all over the place.
My bet is that the cost per mile- which is what you actually care about, not mpg- is very different between tow vehicles and economy cars. Having said that, I would say 12 valve cummins quad cab (I have done 18mpg towing a mustang on a trailer and generally get 19 on highway with my 4wd auto) but I doubt there are many decent ones out there for 10k?
Jcamper
Yes in a sense I am using cost per mile in a spreadsheet not just pure mpg to calculate. I also think perceived cost vs actual cost ends up being a factor. A little bit more money every month in gas vs a "surprise" larger mechanic bill feel different.
I think all of these options could work, my main question would be which option is a 10k example of going to be the most trouble free as they are all likely to be 100k-150k+ examples in that age and price range.
Jaynen said:codrus said:Personally I would buy a Suburban and a commuter vehicle and use each for the right job.
I live in a sub division, renting, wife gets the one side of the garage that isnt filled with stuff which leaves me one spot in the driveway. I already have the miata HPDE/racecar which is parked on the street. SWMBO will never go for 2 more cars putting us at 4 total with two that have to be parked on the street. Plus that would leave me feeling like an ahole and we are not supposed to block the mailbox's.
So where are the enclosed trailer and travel trailer going to live the 95% of the time they aren't being used?
That's a weird spreadsheet. Why would you do cost per week instead of cost per year? Are you factoring in repairs or maintenance? What about depreciation? Opportunity cost?
Fuel appears to be the primary cost of owning a vehicle, but it isn't when you start to factor in those other things. For example, a used leaf at ZERO cost (assuming I charge it for free somewhere) is still more expensive to operate than my car from opportunity cost alone.
The 2500 'Burb should be available with something other than a Big Block, depending on year. The earlier ones had the 350 stock. A GMT400 with the Vortec 350 should get close to 20mpg highway, maybe 18 if you need 4x4. Probably more like 16-17 combined. We have a '91 4x4 1500 with the old TBI and it always gets 14mpg no matter how we drive it. Even towing our small camper- though we usually tow more slowly than if we weren't, so the lower speed helps with MPG.
Speed is a huge factor with these things, since you're basically pushing two bricks stacked on top of each other through the air. Wouldn't surprise me at all if a tank of gas at 55mph were like 20 mpg and a tank at 75mph was like 15 mpg.
I had a 7.3 truck. And had every single 7.3 - specific problem with it. I hated it. It also never ever ever got over 15mpg. But it was a 4x4 crew cab long bed full ton. It wasn't a dually, though.
At 15k miles per year, you're starting to get into the diesel-payback range. Plus, a diesel shouldn't depreciate as much as a gasser. Honestly, if you find a well-taken-care-of GMT400 with the diesel I'd go for that. Or, if you need something newer, then go for a crew cab short bed.
Jaynen said:
- Excursion - I like the 7.3 I still am I diesel fan even if I have been burned sometimes by the repairs cost, larger heavier vehicle means easier towing and of course hauls lots of stuff
- 4Runner - Surprising capability in a package that would probably be most appealing to the wife because of its "mid size" appearance
- Cummins etc, A truck I like the fact that even though I don't do a lot of truck things it makes sense as a vehicle you could expect hopefully to keep for a long time as trucks are just useful
- 1500 Burban/Truck, the 5.3 seems to have pretty decent ratings but I saw some posts here on people having some issues?
- Denali - Seems like the older denali with the 6.0 is a better choice than some of the newer ones with the 6.2 at least if they have the cylinder deactivation
I think all of these options could work, my main question would be which option is a 10k example of going to be the most trouble free as they are all likely to be 100k-150k+ examples in that age and price range.
If you are ok with 2wd 10k should get you a decent anything on the list. A dodge Cummins will go several hundred thousand miles, but the auto trans were weak links, manuals last much better. And the bodies fall apart and rot.
7.3s were really good, and I don' think the trans were that big of an issue. I know of way too many 6.0 powerstroke horror stories too get a ford diesel newer than the 7.3.
Gm 6.0 gas is really good but crazy thirsty. I get around 12 mpg with mine.
I don't know if you can find a 2wd duramax for 10k that would be worth buying. If you can that would be at the top of my list.
yupididit said:Jaynen said:yupididit said:2wd 7.3 excursion.
Fuelly shows those at like 13-14 mpg and diesel is 7% more expensive overall than gas. I really want headache free reliability for a good 5yrs, don't mind maintenance but no big gotcha's
The 7.3 is known to be reliable. As reliable as any gas engine of not more.
But the rest of the truck is still a 15+ year old Ford.
STM317 said:Jaynen said:codrus said:Personally I would buy a Suburban and a commuter vehicle and use each for the right job.
I live in a sub division, renting, wife gets the one side of the garage that isnt filled with stuff which leaves me one spot in the driveway. I already have the miata HPDE/racecar which is parked on the street. SWMBO will never go for 2 more cars putting us at 4 total with two that have to be parked on the street. Plus that would leave me feeling like an ahole and we are not supposed to block the mailbox's.
So where are the enclosed trailer and travel trailer going to live the 95% of the time they aren't being used?
I have an offsite storage spot I pay monthly for the current travel trailer. Hope to buy a house out here with more space in the next year once I sell my house in San Diego but that is going to be likely a year off.
volvoclearinghouse said:The 2500 'Burb should be available with something other than a Big Block, depending on year. The earlier ones had the 350 stock. A GMT400 with the Vortec 350 should get close to 20mpg highway, maybe 18 if you need 4x4. Probably more like 16-17 combined. We have a '91 4x4 1500 with the old TBI and it always gets 14mpg no matter how we drive it. Even towing our small camper- though we usually tow more slowly than if we weren't, so the lower speed helps with MPG.
Speed is a huge factor with these things, since you're basically pushing two bricks stacked on top of each other through the air. Wouldn't surprise me at all if a tank of gas at 55mph were like 20 mpg and a tank at 75mph was like 15 mpg.
I had a 7.3 truck. And had every single 7.3 - specific problem with it. I hated it. It also never ever ever got over 15mpg. But it was a 4x4 crew cab long bed full ton. It wasn't a dually, though.
At 15k miles per year, you're starting to get into the diesel-payback range. Plus, a diesel shouldn't depreciate as much as a gasser. Honestly, if you find a well-taken-care-of GMT400 with the diesel I'd go for that. Or, if you need something newer, then go for a crew cab short bed.
GMT400 puts that as late 90's that was the 6.5 non turbo diesel?
ProDarwin said:That's a weird spreadsheet. Why would you do cost per week instead of cost per year? Are you factoring in repairs or maintenance? What about depreciation? Opportunity cost?
Fuel appears to be the primary cost of owning a vehicle, but it isn't when you start to factor in those other things. For example, a used leaf at ZERO cost (assuming I charge it for free somewhere) is still more expensive to operate than my car from opportunity cost alone.
Cost per week was just a factor of commuting, before looking at the delta per month. Since I usually do a budget on a monthly basis I find that more useful than just looking at the annual.
In reply to Jaynen :
Yes, up to '99 I believe. I think some of the 6.5's were turbo. The 6.5 isn't particularly powerful, but they can pull down some really good mpg.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-Chevrolet-Suburban-LS-3RD-seat/222962597545?hash=item33e99b3ea9:g:PbIAAOSwvYha18F7&vxp=mtr
In reply to Tom_Spangler :
At his budget whatever he buys will be a 15ish year old something. And 15 year old Ford interior > same vintage dodge or chevy.
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
I think pretty much all 6.5s were turbo. I have heard of na 6.5 in government vehicles, but I've never seen an na 6.5 in a normal production pickup. My dad bought a new 93 c3500 with the 6.5 and a 5 speed. He drove it 250,000 miles with very few problems and averaged low 20's mpg. 93 and earlier were better because they still had mechanical injection. They had less problems than the later efi engines. They were both fairly reliable engines, but they don' really compare the newer stuff for power.
93gsxturbo said:I gotta say the guys who say they get 22+ MPG out of their 7.3s are full of crap, but I have never seen less than 15MPG combined 50/50 city and highway with a lifted 4x4 F250 with big tires. They are definitely the easy button and should return upper teens if left on stock tires and at stock ride height.
I’ve now owned 2 7.3’s in the last year. A 96 f-250 xlt extended cab with a bed cover and new tires got 24mpg avg from Chattanooga to west palm beach at 70mph. I now have a 97 f250HD 7.3 with an open bed, and toolbox and I just got 23 doing 70-75, but a/c was off.
I actually had another thread posting about classic looking tow rigs and the OBS fords were on that list. I imagine that the excursion interior is much nicer than the trucks however. I just wonder about how the diesel's do in stop and go. They are at their best when you can run them at a steady cruise
Jaynen said:I actually had another thread posting about classic looking tow rigs and the OBS fords were on that list. I imagine that the excursion interior is much nicer than the trucks however. I just wonder about how the diesel's do in stop and go. They are at their best when you can run them at a steady cruise
My commute is basically 100% stop and go traffic in the morning. I do notice MPG's drop when an oil change is getting due. I do try to get her on the highway and open her up once in awhile.
It seems with small kids you have a lot of years where a 3/4 ton extended cab would fit them just fine. As noted earlier, 2WD is cheaper to buy also.
Everybody wants a crew cab 4x4 diesel with heated leather, but if a 2WD ext. cab gets the job done there's a more selection at your price point like this: (NMNA) 6.4 diesel, '08, 107K miles, <$10K.
https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/ctd/d/sharp-2008-ford-f250-ext-cab/6569477173.html
EDIT: This seems a bit cheaper than normal... proceed with caution. typical seem to be more $13K+ range for an '08+ 6.4 diesel.
Personally I'd shy away from the 6.0 trucks, but I wouldn't be scared to go a bit older in another brand. Using the same formula, rwd ext. cab Duramax can be had ~$13Kish as well with <150K on them. Like this '04 GMC: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=478722976
In reply to gearheadmb :
Right, the newer stuff blows it out of the water for power. The newer stuff is also much more expensive and complicated. And the really new stuff needs DEF.
I drove a 5.9 cummins 12V for a while, used it to tow ~7000 lb trailers. It was all right. 160 HP/ 400 lb-ft. You don't worry about the horse, you just load the cart.
This seems like a really cheap 6.5 diesel
https://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/d/1999-gmc-sierra-2500/6569948523.html
I have zero need for 4x4, I would only buy 4x4 if it was because the deal was better/it was near me/residual value. I would prefer no 4x4. If I buy a tow vehicle for my daily then the minivan maintains its purpose as primary people hauler. Right now my car gets better mpg than the van so gets used for smaller trips.
In reply to xflowgolf :
If you are to shy away from a 6.0 then run from a 6.4. The 6.0 is good for 05-07 years, a lot more reliable than the early run.
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