I NEED Upgraded Driveshaft U-Joints

So, every year the driveshaft u-joints on my Starlet fail in spectacular fashion. Always when I'm on the highway...which means I have to change the dead joint on the side of the road. I really shouldn't be as good at doing it as I am.

These u-joints are tiny but I see no reason for them to fail on a regular basis--regular enough that I always keep spares in the car. Short of having a new driveshaft made with larger u-joints, is there anything I can do? It appears that the c-clip that holds the cups in place vaporizes and the bearings soon follow. At least, that's what the aftermath leads me to believe.

I check these things frequently and they never show signs of impending doom. They just grenade when least expected...but always on the highway. Are the c-clips just too wimpy?

I can import u joints if I knew the exact measurements. I rebuild steering shafts and import specialty units for those. I can ask my supplier if they have any insight in to what is happening. My first reaction is that the units you are getting may be to small and are pounding the c clips apart from the inside out.

Ever try a greaseable u joint? I dont know what that car uses but ive been abusing 1310 u joints for years with rare failures. I had an s10 that would destroy the u joint about every 15k but that was eventually traced back to a bent transmission mount.

Any chance the trans output shaft and the differential pinion shaft aren't parallel?

DeadSkunk wrote: Any chance the trans output shaft and the differential pinion shaft aren't parallel?

that's my question.. would be worth knowing as even an upgraded shaft would quickly eat it's joints if they are not set up right

If they weren't parallel (or complementary to the driveshaft - both will work) you will have hellacious drivetrain shudder under load, and you would hear a loud rattle under neutral throttle from the gear lash in the rearend and trans clattering.

If your U-joint angles are greater than about 3-4 degrees then that will also eat U-joints.

Ive always been told stay away from greasable joint at the grease channel/cavity weakens the joint.

Probably look and see if this is a common issue among other starlets, so you can find out if its a design flaw and something needs to be upgraded or just a your car thing and you can look for the underlying cause

No vibration until the u-joint starts to let loose. Then, I get severe vibration and an almost immediate death rattle from the u-joint. The pinion and tranny output look pretty good to me--no odd angles that I can see.

I'd love to know if this is a common problem among Starlets but there are no forums except for in New Zealand and Australia and they use a slightly different chassis. I will ask though.

If the joints failed in a spectacular fashion at some point, or they were changed by a ham-fisted mechanic with a hydraulic press, the yokes on the shaft could be messed up.

Happened to me with a Jeep Comanche. Someone got too aggressive and bent the yoke at some point. I couldn't keep u-joints in it until I had a new yoke welded in.

I've tried joints with and without grease fittings--makes no difference.

To Dean1458--I will take measurements for you.  Heck,  I'll just send you a brand new unit.  Just email me at johnmpruner@gmail.com.

I don't know if this will help you but here are a few links from rock auto.com on the u-joints I use:

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5804382&cc=1278345&jnid=328&jpid=0

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=356816&cc=1278345&jnid=328&jpid=1

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=387757&cc=1278345&jnid=328&jpid=2

I've installed the u-joints each time.  The first couple of times I used a press but was very careful.  At that time,  the cups on the u-joints were snug but not so tight you couldn't tap them gently with a hammer to get them seated.

The last three u-joints I have been forced to change them by the roadside so some hammering with a punch was necessary--but I had no real problem removing the old joints or pressing in the new ones.  The only trouble I had was getting the c-clips to seat without the use of snap ring pliers...which I will be carry with me from now on.

The c-clips may be the problem as it's not like the bearings are eating themselves up internally--it appears the c-clip is failing and thus the bearing cup is actually thrown free of the u-joint.

I will see if I can get a spec from the links

Oh ya YMM of the car would help.

Thank you so much for your help. By YMM I'm assuming that means Your Monthly Mileage? If so, the car gets about 5000 miles per year. Bought in 2005 with about 76,000 miles. Currently has around 135000.

I'd assume ymm is year/make/model?

Yes year make model. Sorry about that.

redvalkyrie wrote: The c-clips may be the problem as it's not like the bearings are eating themselves up internally--it appears the c-clip is failing and thus the bearing cup is actually thrown free of the u-joint.

I've never experienced the issue you're having, but I've worked with C-clips a lot over the years. It sounds to me like it could be a problem with the retaining grove in the yoke. If there's crud/damage in the grove, or the lip is busted/rounded, it could allow the clip to pop out under enough force - possibly just the centrifugal force of rotation at speed?

I've also had plenty of times when it seemed like the clip was fully seated, but really wasn't. That's particularly true if you don't have a quality pair of snap-ring pliers. I could see it being even worse doing it on the ground by the side of the road. Maybe the clips are in just enough to hang on for a little while?

The Samurai eats U-Joints on a regular basis, unless you use good quality joints. The OEM joints on the Samurai are KOYO and they last forever. Anything else is junk and changing them becomes a annual chore.

Everlast u joints forgot the n in front of the name.

I've never experienced the issue you're having, but I've worked with C-clips a lot over the years. It sounds to me like it could be a problem with the retaining grove in the yoke. If there's crud/damage in the grove, or the lip is busted/rounded, it could allow the clip to pop out under enough force - possibly just the centrifugal force of rotation at speed? I've also had plenty of times when it seemed like the clip was fully seated, but really wasn't. That's particularly true if you don't have a quality pair of snap-ring pliers. I could see it being even worse doing it on the ground by the side of the road. Maybe the clips are in just enough to hang on for a little while?

I could certainly see that being the issue but I've done them in a shop and used snap ring pliers. I definitely think the centrifugal force is doing a number on the c-clips.

Yes year make model. Sorry about that.

I'm an idiot--1982 Toyota Starlet 5 speed

Ok I looked at the Rock Auto U joints and those are made by the same manufacturer that I can get. They are not the same brand but the same manufacturer. From my research on this I found that there really are only two manufactures of U joints in the world that produce 80-90 percent of the U joints and of that 80-90 percent most are re branded as OEM units for the big 4-5 automakers. I happen to know what to look for in the casting and the photos of the Rock Auto units are a dead giveaway. I actually have access to the engineering drawings for there entire line.

The short of it is that I can actually get to the engineering department and ask them what is causing the failure is. They should be able to tell me. Or they may want me to mail them some or all of the U joint for inspection. I ran in to an issue a couple years back on a particular run of u joints and I sent them back several that failed my inspection and it resulted in a re design of the needle bearing caps for a particular part number due to the application.

I am suspicious that there is an issue with the clips. They could be to brittle and or the U joint is just a fraction of a MM to small so it can move against the clips. the clips need to be spring steel but this is inherently brittle so it is a balancing act between spring tension and malleability. They may just have a bad run of Clips combined with a unit that is just a mm or less small and it will cause failure.

I have a couple ideas re how to test / fix this but It would be better for me to discuss that option over the phone as it is not as simple as it sounds and there are some definite plus's and negatives to it.

The local truck shop says the issues I've been having with my u-joints are because they are Precision brand. They refuse to install Precision, and only install Spicer.

I swapped my last problem u-joint to Spicer, but only recently, so I can't vouch for any improvement in longevity yet.

So I sent this along via email. We will see what I get back.

Hi A*,

I hope all is well!!!

I have a quick question. A friend of mine has a U Joint Issue with a Toyota Starlet. The issue is that the U joints are failing in a rather short period of time but not in the usual way. The clips that retain the needle bearing cup appears to be braking / failing allowing the cup to “walk” out of the Yoke.

He showed me the U joints and they are GMB U joints and you are the foremost expert that I know about them so I figured I would ask.

My first thought was that it was that the U joint was a little to small and there is a bit of play between the bearing cup and the clip. With the clip being a spring steel it is brittle and will not take well to repeated impacts you would get if here was some play in there. Weather it is a U joint Issue or if the grove in the Yoke that the retainer clip goes in to has worn I don’t know but knowing what cause this type of failure would give us a clue as to where to start looking. Many Thanks!!!

Respectfully,

eMotorsports.org

Dean E. Smith

President

eMotorsports

www.eMotorsports.org

Wow, thank you so much Dean!

Spicer are very good. But again they don't make all there units. I am dealing with the parent company that actually supplies the "oe" units to Toyota.

If you get the greasable kind, the grease in them is not meant to be run, especially on the cheap ones, you have to pump until all the factory grease is pushed out. Ideally they should be greased every oil change, until grease leaks out from all 4 caps. Most parts with a zerk are like that, if you don't grease it regularly until it pukes, it won't live long.

This doesn't sound like a lube problem though, you should never lose C clips. I like to use a hammer and punch to make sure they're seated. If they're the kind where the clip goes in the yoke it doesn't take much of a misdirected hit with a hammer to deform the groove enough that it won't go in correctly without persuasion.