In reply to ProDarwin :
I think they do that because they wanna control their market; keep using Tesla streaming, Tesla branded ect. Myself, I'm probably gonna get a Tidal account soon to ditch Tesla's streaming app; not that it's bad, but their streaming service has entry-level depth and I haven't found a way to remove "stations" you or others have liked in the past.
In reply to ProDarwin :
If you wanna get a little spicy on returning it charged to avoid that "Fuel option", Karl at Electric Bikes.com can give you some ideas on Guerrila charging for free.
Most parks with any kind of campgrounds, marinas or anyplace that allows for plugging in large RVs or Boats will often have 30 or 50 amp plugs that are close to places you can park. Once you start looking for high voltage plugs you’ll be amazed at how many you can find.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:frenchyd said:AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I disagree. $31 trillion in debt says the US didn't inflate its way out of anything. Your grand daughter is buried in your debts and so are all kids. It's a terrible way to treat future generations.
If you focus on the interest cost of debt, you are absolutely correct. However the most intelligent way to look at debt is what did you get for your money?
If it's a vacation to Disneyland and a gamboling weekend in Vegas You have every right to feel the money is wasted.
If you bought a house and learned a marketable skill, That is money well spent.
If you are looking at the government and cherry pick things you deem as wasteful. That's simply the wrong approach.
With 334 million people each will have an opinion about waste. Whatever you pick, you will be in the minority. There may be a lot who agree on some things with you. But still you are in the minority.
Since every American is entitled to a share of America. Money spent by the government is going to reflect those differences.Says the generation that benefited the most. Your decisions hurt me. It hurts millennials and Gen Z even more. This is really why your opinions on this subject, are quite frankly, insulting. It doesn't matter what we got for the $31 trillion to you because you don't have to pay it back. My quality of life suffers because the interest on it is out of control. Future generations are on the hook for interest plus principle.
Im continually amazed how baby boomers went from damn the system hippies to totalitarians in about 50 years. Now you want to dictate me how to view our current economic situation. Honestly I still care way more about what millennials and Gen Z have to say about it, since ultimately you abdicated your fiscal irresponsibility to them.
You lecturing us on EVs is almost as bad, but not quite. Lecturing us on the debt your generation left for future generations is worse. You are trying to justify actual financial harm to my kids and unborn grandkids. I will never accept that as good. You shouldn't either.
Debt buys things. In America's case it bought our freedom. OK we borrowed 75 million dollars from France and that loan cost the French rulers their heads. ( and took America 60 years to pay back.).
Then 20 years later the American civil war cost us 31.6% debt to GDP
It was rolled into the debt we acquired for WW1 and that was rolled into WW2. Which got us up to 99% Debt to GDP
90% tax bracket and some severe cost cutting eventually by 1980 we got down to 22% Debt to GDP
The next tax cut raised it to 78% From But the following 8 years dropped it down to 56%
The next tax cut raised it back up to 88%
Look at it then. You can spot every tax cut and each reduction in debt to GDP. From 2018 to 2022 the debt increased by 7 Trillion dollars.
The only way to eliminate that debt is to pay it off through increased taxes.
If you think now is a good time to send the military home, close the pentagon. If America defaults on all our loans stops paying social security and Medicare and just let's the seniors die.
We might eliminate it.
Is that what you propose? Just shut up the government and let Anarchy have its way?
In reply to frenchyd :
Do you propose we follow in the steps of Zimbabwe and Venezuela? Is that what you want for future generations? It doesn't have to be either extreme. No one is trying to defund social security and kill you. Your silly assertions and love of making debts you will never pay is why I cannot and will not take your generation seriously. I already have a family to take care of. It's not my job to coddle you too and pay for your life's excesses.
You can't have a reasonable discussion with the under educated or liars. Sadly the majority of our society falls into one of those two categories quite easily.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
and this has to do with the EV discussion how?
Every thread here starts out about cars, and becomes people whining about general things that bother them. I guess it's cheaper than a shrink.
GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to ProDarwin :
If you wanna get a little spicy on returning it charged to avoid that "Fuel option", Karl at Electric Bikes.com can give you some ideas on Guerrila charging for free.
Most parks with any kind of campgrounds, marinas or anyplace that allows for plugging in large RVs or Boats will often have 30 or 50 amp plugs that are close to places you can park. Once you start looking for high voltage plugs you’ll be amazed at how many you can find.
Oh I'm sure you CAN.
Interestingly, a rental scenario is likely the last time I would choose an EV. Its when I am least likely to have access to overnight charging, and also when my time is most valuable. I just spent a very expensive week traveling... there is no way I would want to be burdened with the extra charge time every time I filled up. And certainly not when I am trying to drop my stuff off at an airport and hop on a plane.
In reply to frenchyd :
I've noticed that whenever people are wearing jackets it's cold outside. If they would just stop wearing those dang jackets, the weather would warm up. And don't get me started on all of those people with umbrellas, enough rain already!
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Do you propose we follow in the steps of Zimbabwe and Venezuela? Is that what you want for future generations? It doesn't have to be either extreme. No one is trying to defund social security and kill you. Your silly assertions and love of making debts you will never pay is why I cannot and will not take your generation seriously. I already have a family to take care of. It's not my job to coddle you too and pay for your life's excesses.
You can't have a reasonable discussion with the under educated or liars. Sadly the majority of our society falls into one of those two categories quite easily.
I asked a simple question to your statement about no one wanted a serious discussion about the debt.
I'll repeat.
What is your solution?
ProDarwin said:GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to ProDarwin :
If you wanna get a little spicy on returning it charged to avoid that "Fuel option", Karl at Electric Bikes.com can give you some ideas on Guerrila charging for free.
Most parks with any kind of campgrounds, marinas or anyplace that allows for plugging in large RVs or Boats will often have 30 or 50 amp plugs that are close to places you can park. Once you start looking for high voltage plugs you’ll be amazed at how many you can find.
Oh I'm sure you CAN.
Interestingly, a rental scenario is likely the last time I would choose an EV. Its when I am least likely to have access to overnight charging, and also when my time is most valuable. I just spent a very expensive week traveling... there is no way I would want to be burdened with the extra charge time every time I filled up. And certainly not when I am trying to drop my stuff off at an airport and hop on a plane.
A $35 charging fee? Seems reasonable for a rental returned empty. It would be more than than to fill a gas tank.
With a 300+ mile range, a local rental would be real hard pressed to run that out.
Granted when I was flying most of my flights were in the company Lear. I'd take the customer to the tour the factory. Then haul them to the gulf course. Back to the airport . We'd sign the paperwork on the flight back.
I flew commercial pretty rarely. The wasted time would sour a lot of customers. So I never took my customers commercial. Just too much waiting around.
I have to admit it took me a little while to get used to little things like regen braking and how to shut it down when I was done driving but not ready to get out of the car. I was lucky and dropped it off with exactly a 75% charge left so I didn't have to charge it or pay to have it recharged. I have another trip next week with about 8 hours of driving and I don't plan to do it with an EV. I will be all over rural Mississippi and don't want to risk wasting time in an already cramped trip. But for city trips like the last one I can totally see them being my go-to. Especially at the rate hertz was charging. It's odd though that the 3 was so cheap when the y was one of the most expensive options.
Most of my trips that require rental cars are 2-3 days with less than 200 miles driving in urban and suburban areas. Based on my n=1, Tesla's are pretty much the ideal tool.
People seem to hate on the build quality but it seemed as good as any other rental car I've ever had.
Honestly I think the build quality freakouts are a huge cope- screeching about misaligned body panels detracts from when that one glass roof wasn't sealed properly and came off on the interstate. Neither should should be a problem, but one should NEVER EVER be a problem.
In reply to itsarebuild :
Oh yeah, and MS likely doesn't have a lot of chargers in general. Though I could see them having tons of shore power for RVs, those 14-50 NEMAs everywhere...
ProDarwin said:Oh I'm sure you CAN.
Interestingly, a rental scenario is likely the last time I would choose an EV. Its when I am least likely to have access to overnight charging, and also when my time is most valuable. I just spent a very expensive week traveling... there is no way I would want to be burdened with the extra charge time every time I filled up. And certainly not when I am trying to drop my stuff off at an airport and hop on a plane.
Yeah, especially if your hotel lacked charging. I'd hope they'd give you lists of charge locations and partner deals with these places, but I've heard more than enough stories of rentals like Hertz having difficulties keeping usable tires on their cars lmao.
Man, both Anothony and Frenchy are wrong enough to make me wanna address it...
GIRTHQUAKE said:Yeah, especially if your hotel lacked charging. I'd hope they'd give you lists of charge locations and partner deals with these places, but I've heard more than enough stories of rentals like Hertz having difficulties keeping usable tires on their cars lmao.
For the last week I slept in the back of a van all over NZ. I never once had an electrical cord to plug into, period.
But yeah even traveling in US, the # of times you have access to an overnight charger at a hotel is limited in my experience. For an in/out trip like most of my business trips, sure it would be nice. But for any vacation type travel it seems like exactly the wrong scenario for an EV.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Most of my trips that require rental cars are 2-3 days with less than 200 miles driving in urban and suburban areas. Based on my n=1, Tesla's are pretty much the ideal tool.
Yeah I wasn't thinking that when I posted. For short business trips they make a ton of sense. Especially for the operators who no longer have to deal with gas, oil changes, etc.
ProDarwin said:ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Most of my trips that require rental cars are 2-3 days with less than 200 miles driving in urban and suburban areas. Based on my n=1, Tesla's are pretty much the ideal tool.
Yeah I wasn't thinking that when I posted. For short business trips they make a ton of sense. Especially for the operators who no longer have to deal with gas, oil changes, etc.
A huge proportion of flights and hotels are business travel. I rented a Tesla on my last business trip, and despite my lack of love for Tesla, I will rent one every time from here on out if it is a possibility.
It looks like Warren Buffit is convinced of the shift to EV's.
He just bought 80% of the company that specializes in putting up those chargers.
ProDarwin said:GIRTHQUAKE said:Yeah, especially if your hotel lacked charging. I'd hope they'd give you lists of charge locations and partner deals with these places, but I've heard more than enough stories of rentals like Hertz having difficulties keeping usable tires on their cars lmao.
For the last week I slept in the back of a van all over NZ. I never once had an electrical cord to plug into, period.
But yeah even traveling in US, the # of times you have access to an overnight charger at a hotel is limited in my experience. For an in/out trip like most of my business trips, sure it would be nice. But for any vacation type travel it seems like exactly the wrong scenario for an EV.
Up here in the arctic Tundra ( (Minnesota) it's common for hotels and motels to have 110 outlets for plug in block heaters.
Granted that's typically not going to add much range but it's something. Ask at the front desk for extension cords.
I was glad to hear that Germany & Italy are pushing back against the EU ice ban. I know synthetic fuels are expensive & not ready for large scale, but if they do offer the claimed co2 reduction they sound like the best option if reduced emissions quickly is the goal.
In reply to Caperix :
If you did much flying, you'd see with your own eyes what ICE cars are doing.
I love ice cars, honestly. The ones I have I intend to keep until I become a crispy critter. But as a practical matter EV's are simply better. They accelerate faster than ICE cars do. They cost less to own over their lifetime.
Keep a few as toys if you like but start looking at what you're going to own because unless you spend 2 times their original cost to"restore " them they will be junk in 20 years.
frenchyd said:Up here in the arctic Tundra ( (Minnesota) it's common for hotels and motels to have 110 outlets for plug in block heaters.
Granted that's typically not going to add much range but it's something. Ask at the front desk for extension cords.
Honestly, aside from vacation travel, 110 would cover all of my usage easily.
My personal thought is that a lot of people are hung up on MEGA OMG FAST charging, while a much wider availability of 110v would be hugely beneficial for EV adoption.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Most ( 80-90%?) people vacation once a year, when they do if they are really covering a lot of ground they fly. (80-90%?) Of those only a small fraction would be upset spending a 1/2 hour every hour relaxing/ dining/ sight seeing) while the car charges.
Just trying to put numbers to my speculation here. Starting with 300 million. ( assuming 34 million either don't take a vacation or are too old or sick or young to travel). So say 30 million people left. That means 3 million will want to travel more than 300 miles from home and drive.
That leaves 300,000 to buy the more expensive vehicles with 350-400+ mile range cars or complain that they are forced to recharge.
So for those 30,000 they will be forced to buy a hybrid or ICE in order to not complain. How often do even new car buyers buy new cars? Every 3 years? We are down to 10,000.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:frenchyd said:AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I disagree. $31 trillion in debt says the US didn't inflate its way out of anything. Your grand daughter is buried in your debts and so are all kids. It's a terrible way to treat future generations.
If you focus on the interest cost of debt, you are absolutely correct. However the most intelligent way to look at debt is what did you get for your money?
If it's a vacation to Disneyland and a gamboling weekend in Vegas You have every right to feel the money is wasted.
If you bought a house and learned a marketable skill, That is money well spent.
If you are looking at the government and cherry pick things you deem as wasteful. That's simply the wrong approach.
With 334 million people each will have an opinion about waste. Whatever you pick, you will be in the minority. There may be a lot who agree on some things with you. But still you are in the minority.
Since every American is entitled to a share of America. Money spent by the government is going to reflect those differences.Says the generation that benefited the most. Your decisions hurt me. It hurts millennials and Gen Z even more. This is really why your opinions on this subject, are quite frankly, insulting. It doesn't matter what we got for the $31 trillion to you because you don't have to pay it back. My quality of life suffers because the interest on it is out of control. Future generations are on the hook for interest plus principle.
Im continually amazed how baby boomers went from damn the system hippies to totalitarians in about 50 years. Now you want to dictate me how to view our current economic situation. Honestly I still care way more about what millennials and Gen Z have to say about it, since ultimately you abdicated your fiscal irresponsibility to them.
You lecturing us on EVs is almost as bad, but not quite. Lecturing us on the debt your generation left for future generations is worse. You are trying to justify actual financial harm to my kids and unborn grandkids. I will never accept that as good. You shouldn't either.
I'm a bit confused. During the 60's and much of the 70's I was in the USNavy. Not really a Hippie! Post Vietnam I was delivering frozen sandwiches and going to school full time at night, getting my 2nd degree.
My hair still wasn't long. Nor am I a fan of music. ( well classical, but I didn't know that was considered Hippie music).
I've always paid my debts even when it was extremely tough to do so.
Yet you accuse me of not only failing to pay my debts but being a Hippie.
Please explain?
On a slightly different level but along the same line. Have you noticed a continuing theme on National Debt?
China who holds about 15-20% of our debt. With Japan holding another 10% or so. Both seem to be in terrible financial shape. Debt wise. China actually seems worse. ( I wonder how much of their debt we hold?). But Cuba is now near bankruptcy and many other South American countries are just as bad off. Hey the Europeans aren't in such great shape either.
Rumor has it Russia is not doing great either. North Korea the people are starving. As a population they've lost a lot of weight lately.
I wonder what the global debt is ? Is America the worst country in the world? The best? Just average?
The other 70% seems to be held by America/Americans.
So to eliminate 20 trillion dollars of debt America just wipes it off the books. Some very rich people wouldn't do so well and let's face it thrrr are a lot of those treasury bonds in retirement portfolio's.
ProDarwin said:frenchyd said:Up here in the arctic Tundra ( (Minnesota) it's common for hotels and motels to have 110 outlets for plug in block heaters.
Granted that's typically not going to add much range but it's something. Ask at the front desk for extension cords.Honestly, aside from vacation travel, 110 would cover all of my usage easily.
My personal thought is that a lot of people are hung up on MEGA OMG FAST charging, while a much wider availability of 110v would be hugely beneficial for EV adoption.
That's my thought too. Once you get into a mindset of routine top-ups, even the overnight 3-4 miles you get off of 110v adds up quick when you're stopping at a hotel even if for only 10 hours. I honestly never needed to get the 220v adapter for my destination charger- I could have just done 110v for my model 3 24/7.
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