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Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
6/30/23 11:12 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

In reply to Opti :

Apparently you fail to understand the program.  
 No out of pocket cost to you. There is no payment other than what the solar panels generate so there is no additional monthly cost.   If it sounds too good to be true please go to the2 government  links Boost Crazy  made  and read it yourself. 
In addition you will get a 30% tax rebate.   Plus be eligible for whatever grants are given   
     The useful life of solar panels is guaranteed 30 years.  ( I'm sure there are exclusions like baseball hail delivered at 150 mph).  I'm assuming that in that case insurance would cover it but I'll have to check my insurance company. 
    Yes your electricity cost is extremely cheap .  I pay almost that for Water sewer recycling and trash. 
 $85K for solar panels?  Typically around here it's close  to 1/3 of that.  $30K is closer to the mark. 
 

My goodness Frenchyd. This is why people think you are just trolling and can't be real. If you spent a fraction of the time that you spend posting actually reading what you are responding to- well, we wouldn't be anywhere near 72 pages. 
 

As I clearly stated, and others have repeatedly said, the MN.GOV site does not have the word free posted anywhere. Not once. 

The other link was for a company selling solar, not from a government site. Every time the word free was used, it was pure marketing and did not match the dictionary definition of free. If you could not tell the difference between that site and a government site, then I am seriously worried about you. Do not make any financial decision on your own, make sure a trusted loved one is involved if you get any notifications from "The IRS," "Social Security," etc.. 

Lastly, you are again cherry picking the benefits of different methods of installing solar when they are mutually exclusive. I don't know how I could have made it any clearer. Go back and read my last posts if you are interested in understanding what you are missing. If not, carry on, and report back when you get your free solar installed. 

 

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/30/23 11:27 a.m.
frenchyd said:
  I'd hate to think you were just trying to goad me. 

Don't do it... don't post things like that... we are family here... all of us... all of us. 

Behave...

Be Nice Gif GIFs | Tenor

Damn, that was close. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/30/23 11:32 a.m.
Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to frenchyd :

In reply to Opti :

Apparently you fail to understand the program.  
 No out of pocket cost to you. There is no payment other than what the solar panels generate so there is no additional monthly cost.   If it sounds too good to be true please go to the2 government  links Boost Crazy  made  and read it yourself. 
In addition you will get a 30% tax rebate.   Plus be eligible for whatever grants are given   
     The useful life of solar panels is guaranteed 30 years.  ( I'm sure there are exclusions like baseball hail delivered at 150 mph).  I'm assuming that in that case insurance would cover it but I'll have to check my insurance company. 
    Yes your electricity cost is extremely cheap .  I pay almost that for Water sewer recycling and trash. 
 $85K for solar panels?  Typically around here it's close  to 1/3 of that.  $30K is closer to the mark. 
 

My goodness Frenchyd. This is why people think you are just trolling and can't be real. If you spent a fraction of the time that you spend posting actually reading what you are responding to- well, we wouldn't be anywhere near 72 pages. 
 

As I clearly stated, and others have repeatedly said, the MN.GOV site does not have the word free posted anywhere. Not once. 

The other link was for a company selling solar, not from a government site. Every time the word free was used, it was pure marketing and did not match the dictionary definition of free. If you could not tell the difference between that site and a government site, then I am seriously worried about you. Do not make any financial decision on your own, make sure a trusted loved one is involved if you get any notifications from "The IRS," "Social Security," etc.. 

Lastly, you are again cherry picking the benefits of different methods of installing solar when they are mutually exclusive. I don't know how I could have made it any clearer. Go back and read my last posts if you are interested in understanding what you are missing. If not, carry on, and report back when you get your free solar installed. 

 

I'm starting to think it's not trolling and something else.....

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
6/30/23 11:38 a.m.
Steve_Jones said:
Tom1200 said:
bobzilla said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

The meme thread would like to disagree. Please don't frenchy the facts. 

The meme thread went more than 70 pages???

It's currently on page 1280

I'm an amateur then............got it.

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/30/23 11:46 a.m.
Tom1200 said:
Steve_Jones said:
Tom1200 said:
bobzilla said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

The meme thread would like to disagree. Please don't frenchy the facts. 

The meme thread went more than 70 pages???

It's currently on page 1280

I'm an amateur then............got it.

Yeah, the hotlink thread is at 4550 pages and almost 114k posts. This thread may have the staying power but it's going to take several years for it to catch up. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
6/30/23 11:55 a.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

And I was so pleased with myself things I was some Agent of Chaos mastermind.........this is what happens when one spends an inordinate amount of time sniffing Datsun exhaust fumes.

Opti
Opti SuperDork
6/30/23 12:01 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Frenchy please show me in TX how I can get solar panels at no COST, i dont want to hear "no out of pocket cost", that's just marketing speak for we are getting paid in a different way. Nothing is free, id figure at your age you would have learned this lesson a long time ago.

Also what is the 30% tax rebate on, if there is no cost.

I did read the links boost posted and ill take a hard pass on a programable thermostat, im sure buried in the fine print somewhere it says the utility company can control temps in your home during extreme circumstances. In TX Ercot is out here trying to convince people 95* is room temperature.

The only way solar is useful to me is if it removes my reliance on the grid, because for me its not currently cheaper than just paying my utility bill, so when I priced it I needed storage also, to run my house Id need two "power walls," if I went the tesla route, hence the 85K price. They tried to spin it as 60K and did all the marketing speak about rebates and reduced expenses, but in reality id have to hand the 85K.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
6/30/23 1:32 p.m.

This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.


bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
6/30/23 2:22 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Once again you flat out lied. Again. 
know what state has the highest percent of renewables? South Dakota. 
 

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2023/02/us-state-with-most-renewable-energy-production/#

once again frenchy making E36 M3 up and saying it so many times he believes it. 

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
6/30/23 2:36 p.m.

In reply to bobzilla :

"highest percent of renewables?"

That's not exactly how Frenchy said it. I Goog'd his words and think he is mostly correct this time.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
6/30/23 2:38 p.m.

In reply to bobzilla :

Like everything else the devils is in the details.  
 South Dakota does have the greatest percentage  all 123 people.  Sorry, low population states are easy targets when dealing with percentages.  

  However if you notice I didn't use the word percentage,  I used,  Has the most renewables. Yeh I've seen that stat so many times  just repeated it.  
 If you'll give me a nice apology I'll look it up for you. 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
6/30/23 3:07 p.m.

In reply to Opti :

Programmable thermostats aren't typically connected to the internet.   So no one but you changes the temp setting.
   What they are talking about. Is you turn the thermostat down or up  when everybody is at work, or up in the summer .  And set it for before you get home so you don't come into a cold (in the winter) (hot in the summer).  Then they typically have Saturday and Sunday settings. 
  That way the furnace or air conditioner isn't working hard costing you money when nobody is home.  
    
   One other thing.  If you want to live off grid you will need to put the  excess electricity you produce during the day  into a wall battery system or a bigger EV  battery. ( the little Nissan Leaf  or the coming Tesla Model 2  isn't big enough)   To my knowledge only Ford offered 2 way batteries.  The rest there is a system out there  that will allow you to use the battery in your car/truck    
      How big a wall system you'll need depends on your electric power consumption.   Texas is one of the good states for sunshine, but when you select your panels be aware that high heat reduces the effectiveness of some brands. While some others are really good about dealing with it.   I haven't checked every brand but the better ones seem those panels able to deal with more heat  also lose more efficiency as they get out towards 30 years.  That doesn't mean they fail  but instead of converting 22% of the sunlight to electricity they may drop down to 18- even 16% 
    Be aware that solar panels are improving fast and prices are getting a lot cheaper.  The Germans are working on those to get the conversion  up to 50% while another company is  printing panels on flexible material dramatically  lowering the labor to make them.  
 Right now the low cost one with good quantity's are coming from Vietnam. A couple of years ago China was the low cost source.  But with government subsidies, things are getting a lot more competitive with American brands  

 Prices just a few years ago are significantly higher than today  

 

 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
6/30/23 3:45 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm concerned for you. You vacillate between being a condescending ass and saying nonsensical things that make me really think you are not well. 
 

I knew I shouldn't have stepped into this thread. I managed to avoid it for over 65 pages.  I have a very legitimate interest in EVs and thought I could learn something. The only thing I learned was to STAY AWAY FROM THREADS LIKE THIS.

When you get your free solar panels or your sub $25,000 Tesla, let me know. Until then, I have no interest in trying to have a conversation with you about this any more. 
 

Peace out.

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
6/30/23 4:58 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I don't know Texas law.    Only 20 states help with renewables.    Is Texas one of them?   I do know that at this point Texas has more renewables than any other state.  
    Given that your businessmen are smart careful people who see  the profit potential in renewables.  
    Is it true that prices vary  up to 50 times between peak and off peak use?   Apparently that is why Tesla built a factory in Texas.  

You don't know Minnesota either, but that hasn't stopped you yet. There is a very important guideline to investing. Don't invest in something that you don't understand just because you see others doing it. There is definitely profit potential for renewables, but it lives within clearly defined parameters. It goes wrong when people such as yourself ignore that and insist that if it's good for some, it's good for all. 

 


      This is pure conjecture on my part and may not be factual.   Texas may want corporations to own the renewables rather than individuals . The way they bill Electricity is the reason for my belief.  Since customers are required to pay market price  rather than a fixed cost.  

I don't even know how to respond to this. Other than reaching a concussion when you don't even understand the question will give you an interesting answer. 


      
   The gain for the Minnesota  is to not have to send our money out of state to pay for fuel.  Or the cost to build bigger and bigger power plants to meet the ever increasing need for electricity.

Where do you think the solar panels come from? Are you saying that it's a calculated move to send a large amount of dollars out of Minnesota up front rather than slowly over the next couple decades? 
 



    Every business has a replace equipment budget.  Since power companies are publicly held and regulated the state knows those numbers. Minnesota is using that budget to pay up front costs for  solar and wind.  Then the utility company are paid back through the electricity generated. ( your excess goes to your neighbors) 

While this may be true, that doesn't mean that it is the best use of those energy dollars. In some circumstances, yes. But as a blanket statement, no. The more solar installed, the more costly it becomes. That is why a balanced approach is better than a mandate.

Peak  demand  is during daylight. At night demand goes down.  By saving the cost of building new power plants to meet that demand  it is profitable for the power companies as well. 
 

Nope, peak solar output and peak electricity usage do not match up. It would be so much easier if that were the case. This isn't a day/night thing, it's a moment by moment thing. You can't just average day and night. Peak production is late morning to early afternoon, peak usage is late afternoon to early evening. Since these don't match, other energy production methods are needed to balance the grid, or batteries are needed. This is why a huge portion of California drastically changed their net metering rules this spring. 


   Don't forget that according to Minnesota the power company can sell the electricity you generate  at todays rates while only paying you last years rates.  If todays rates are 11 cents per KWH  and last years was 10 cents per KWH .  The power company makes 1 cent per KWH At no cost to them.  Yes we are using their lines to transmit that power but the lines would be there anyway.   If your electric bill is $100/ month  so $10 bucks of that bill is free to the company    Multiply that times the number of homes a utility company serves and we are talking a serious amount of pure profit. 

I think you have this really, really wrong. There are two ways power companies buy back solar. One is net metering, where they give you credit for what you produce at the same rate at which they charge, until it balances at zero. If you produce beyond that, you get a microscopic rate for your overproduction- it would never pay for the solar needed to generate the overage. The other is contracting with the owner of the solar system to become a utility provider. This is very rare, very involved, and not something offered to residential solar. And to my knowledge they pay them the wholesale price for the excess energy they produce, nothing close to the price they charge.  Why would they pay more for electricity produced by solar than by a conventional power plant? That would drive up energy costs greatly. 


    Have I put you to sleep yet?  
      The great thing about this approach is once a significant percentage of homes and business have  the power grid becomes very flexible without the power loss of transmission over long distance. 
 

Again, overly simplistic. You would need expensive batteries to make this more feasible. 

     
 Are you still with me?   Ford has made a big deal out of using the F150 lightening to power the home if the power goes out. Up to 2-3 days typically.   Actually every EV can be used this way it just requires the right system.  

You sure fall for marketing. That was largely a marketing gimmick. Neat idea at first thought, but if my power is out for any length of time, I sure don't want my vehicle drained too. And if I could afford an $80k truck, pretty sure I could swing a backup generator too. While it is possible to integrate control of charging EV's to balance the grid with the peaks and valleys of solar production, I wouldn't want my car to be used as a battery for the grid. Both because I don't want the grid discharging my car, and because I'd rather not shorten it's battery's life while it just sits there cycling in my driveway. 


      
       

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
6/30/23 5:13 p.m.

In reply to SV reX :

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm concerned for you. You vacillate between being a condescending ass and saying nonsensical things that make me really think you are not well. 
 

I've noticed this, and suspected for a while now that there is more than one person posting under his name. The tone and composition of his posts vary, and it would explain other oddities in his posts. Either someone "helping" him, or two people trolling us. 

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/30/23 6:15 p.m.
Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to SV reX :

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm concerned for you. You vacillate between being a condescending ass and saying nonsensical things that make me really think you are not well. 
 

I've noticed this, and suspected for a while now that there is more than one person posting under his name. The tone and composition of his posts vary, and it would explain other oddities in his posts. Either someone "helping" him, or two people trolling us. 

 

They are all pretty similar. And I wasn't thinking anything that dubious, I was more thinking of something that starts with the letter D. And it's not d---head. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
6/30/23 6:19 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

yes, they produce more quantity, but they are also the largest state in the continental US. They also have approximately 1/10 of the total US population, only California has more. . I would expect them to produce more everything because of that. Only 26% of their power is renewable. 1 quarter of their power is renewable, where California is producing 36%. 

But to listen to your constant drivel they are the #1 everything except Tesla. 

Also, Wireless T-stats ARE accessible remotely, hence the "wireless" part of their name. There are already power companies controlling levels in other states. So wrong again. I'd provide a link but it's berkeleying useless because even if you could read it you'd ignore it. 

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones SuperDork
6/30/23 6:25 p.m.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Can one of the 2 people please learn how to copy and paste, and the correct spelling of lightning?

I was leaning towards symptoms of Dementia many, many pages ago but thought it was just me. That and an older person worried about 15 year payback time seemed odd too. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/30/23 6:36 p.m.
bobzilla said:

In reply to frenchyd :

yes, they produce more quantity, but they are also the largest state in the continental US. They also have approximately 1/10 of the total US population, only California has more. . I would expect them to produce more everything because of that. Only 26% of their power is renewable. 1 quarter of their power is renewable, where California is producing 36%. 

But to listen to your constant drivel they are the #1 everything except Tesla. 

Also, Wireless T-stats ARE accessible remotely, hence the "wireless" part of their name. There are already power companies controlling levels in other states. So wrong again. I'd provide a link but it's berkeleying useless because even if you could read it you'd ignore it. 

To be fair, if you're talking about the story out of Colorado..........those people signed up for a voluntary program from the utility because they received an upfront rebate. It's not like putting a wireless thermostat in your house means the power company can automatically access it. Don't want them to have access to it, don't give them info to access it. IE, don't buy your smart thermostat from them or sign up for a program. 

It's the same as if you buy your own cable modem for your internet service. You can't just plug it in and it works, you have to have to call the internet provider and give them the make, model, S/N, and Mac address so they can access it and make your service available.

It's the same thing with the smart thermostats. 

https://thesmarthomespot.com/can-the-electric-company-control-your-thermostat/

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/ercot-texas-power-grid-thermostat-yes-texas-energy-companies-can-remotely-control-your-thermostat-depending-on-your-plan/287-8e81116b-b734-4b78-957a-df835fd31955

 

These are people voluntarily signing up for these programs. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
6/30/23 7:18 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

AES has the same program here in central indiana. No I will not be signing up for that but many have. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
6/30/23 7:56 p.m.
bobzilla said:

In reply to z31maniac :

AES has the same program here in central indiana. No I will not be signing up for that but many have. 

I was just saying it's a bit disingenuous to say "utilities are taking over people's wireless thermostats." They aren't and can't unless people relinquish control for a small pittance. 

I will also not be signing up for any program and will happily pay the exorbitant electricity bill during the summer so I and the animals are comfortable while I work from home. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UberDork
6/30/23 9:03 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

If it's on the internet it isn't completely safe from others.  That's just how the internet goes.  

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
6/30/23 10:43 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I agree to an extent. The marketing behind them was to save people "thousands" and help the environment (or at least the propaganda i mean advertising stated. People love tech and the energy companies are not being entirely forthcoming on their information. Kinda like "free solar panels". You hav e to dig to get the whole story and most people just don't. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UberDork
6/30/23 10:55 p.m.
bobzilla said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I agree to an extent. The marketing behind them was to save people "thousands" and help the environment (or at least the propaganda i mean advertising stated. People love tech and the energy companies are not being entirely forthcoming on their information. Kinda like "free solar panels". You hav e to dig to get the whole story and most people just don't. 

You guys just described limits all the information readily accessible on almost any topic.  Sadly to find all sides of any issue, one has to waste a lot of time and read numerous different things and then weed out all of the nonsense.  It is exhausting.  And then you have to fight all the updooted and widespread propaganda.  It's usually the easy to digest lies that take the strongest hold on most minds like "free" electricity.  

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/30/23 10:57 p.m.

Anybody build a shade canopy out of harbor freight solar panels yet?

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