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Opti
Opti SuperDork
6/30/23 11:05 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I think its disingenuous when energy companies arent up front with people about them handing over control of their thermostats in certain situations, instead they bury it in the fine print and dazzle them with things like saving money and the environment.

Yes read everything before you sign it, and there is some culpability of the consumers, but there is a reason the uniform commercial code has rules about protecting consumer and how ambiguous contracts will be viewed by the law or how in contracts a layperson and a professional are not on equal footing when it comes to knowledge. Asymmetry of information is a big deal in contract law. Im not saying these contracts are in violation of these rules only illustrating that we make rules because we know consumers dont have all the information

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/1/23 12:52 a.m.

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frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/1/23 1:08 a.m.

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bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
7/1/23 6:34 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

If for crying out loud. You know what rake your troll ass and go away. It's not even worth it anymore even for entertainment. You either ignore or change the rules or terms to fit your argument. Pointless trolls are gonna troll. 

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones SuperDork
7/1/23 8:53 a.m.

In reply to bobzilla :

You seem rather upset about a thread no one is forcing you to click on. 

Wally (Forum Supporter)
Wally (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/1/23 11:07 a.m.
OHSCrifle said:

Anybody build a shade canopy out of harbor freight solar panels yet?

Not yet but a solar panel porch is on the to-do list 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/1/23 11:12 a.m.

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racerfink
racerfink UberDork
7/1/23 12:01 p.m.

My state offers trolling motors 

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE UltraDork
7/1/23 12:05 p.m.
OHSCrifle said:

Anybody build a shade canopy out of harbor freight solar panels yet?

I'm thinking about doing similar, but I believe that you could get used biphasic for cheaper that make more power. I think the HF Thunderbolts are monophasic and don't have the best lifespan, but that's just hearsay.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/1/23 12:42 p.m.

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Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Dork
7/1/23 1:29 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Frenchyd, you are confusing various Minnesota programs and lumping the benefits together when some are mutually exclusive to different programs. With so many incentives, it's not easy for me to sort out reading through the actual programs, and I have a lot of experience in the field. Getting your information word of mouth from different people gives you zero chance of understanding the complex layers of the numerous Minnesota programs. 
 

Why so many programs? Because your power is cheap and usage is low. You need incentives to move to solar, so they are trying various incentives. The less expensive your energy is, the more expensive solar is by comparison. Even with all of the incentives in Minnesota, the average ROI is well under the top states. California offers very little in the way of incentives because out rates are much higher and our usage is higher. If we had Minnesota style incentives, we would overwhelm the utilities and they would have to limit applications. 

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/1/23 3:12 p.m.
Opti said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I think its disingenuous when energy companies arent up front with people about them handing over control of their thermostats in certain situations, instead they bury it in the fine print and dazzle them with things like saving money and the environment.

Yes read everything before you sign it, and there is some culpability of the consumers, but there is a reason the uniform commercial code has rules about protecting consumer and how ambiguous contracts will be viewed by the law or how in contracts a layperson and a professional are not on equal footing when it comes to knowledge. Asymmetry of information is a big deal in contract law. Im not saying these contracts are in violation of these rules only illustrating that we make rules because we know consumers dont have all the information

Sorry, you're not going to get agreement from me on this one.

If you enter into a legally binding contract without due diligence, I literally have less than zero berkeleys to give.

On that note, I suspect most of you should actually read your HO/Renters policy.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/1/23 4:38 p.m.

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frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/1/23 5:11 p.m.

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racerfink
racerfink UberDork
7/1/23 8:45 p.m.
frenchyd said:

They just announced opening of taking orders on the cyber truck.  
  Bad news they raised the price in line with Ford and Rivian.  Another $10,000

    According to this  those 1.2 million who got their orders in early will get theirs at the old price. 

Maybe find a news article from this year... it makes it seem less obvious what you're doing.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-issues-delayed-development-leaked-report-2023/

Opti
Opti SuperDork
7/1/23 9:16 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I agree with you but we are kinda talking about two different things, one is personal responsibility and i will never disagree with "we need more of that", the other is wether these companies are doing something shady or not. My position is if you have to bury what you are doing, which generally your consumers obviously wouldnt want, in fine print of a large contract you are probably doing something shady. The definition of disingenuous is literally "not straightforward" or other variations of that and misdirecting people with lower energy prices and saving the environment while you bury your actual intentions in a contract is literally disingenuous. If they were upfront about it, you wouldnt be hearing about people blind sided by it.

At the micro level i can think people need to have more personal responsibility while also believing at the macro level some companies try to take advantage of peoples ignorance.

PS you are also correct about your insurance policies. Im literally in the middle of 2 different insurance battles. The only thing that saved me was actually knowing what was in my contract and holding them to it, because they tried to lead me to believe i had much less coverage than i did, we arent done and we have already gone up more than 20x what i was told was covered and i was told multiple times i wasnt allowed things i am legally entitled to under the law. This is a contract they wrote and both parties entered voluntarily. My neighbors went from 2200 in damage to 0 in damage to 70k in damage. Poor mans had a hole in his roof for going on 4 months, and has had to fight tooth and nail to enforce the contract his insurer wrote. Companies do shady things all the time and prey on peoples ignorance. 

The_Jed
The_Jed PowerDork
7/1/23 11:31 p.m.

   I used to kick around the idea of a solar-powered pontoon boat. Install some big solar panels as the canopy/roof and have a bank or two of batteries low in the hull powering a trolling motor or something along those lines. 


   I should probably install a backup system of some sort in my fantasy boat like a stationary bike that turns a small generator or something... "Looks like the batteries are dead and it's cloudy... LEG DAY!!"

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/2/23 12:48 p.m.

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frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/2/23 12:51 p.m.

In reply to The_Jed :

They had something like that cruising around the lake a couple of years ago.  Seemed to last a whole day on the battery pack it used.  But maybe it spent several days charging the batteries on the dock?  
  It was faster than my pontoon.  But not fast enough to water ski behind.  

racerfink
racerfink UberDork
7/2/23 1:44 p.m.

Troll, troll, troll your boat...

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
7/2/23 4:23 p.m.

In reply to racerfink :

When folks started saying 2000 posts I was skeptical but now I'm thinking it's possible.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
7/2/23 5:21 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Pushing this bitch to 75. C'mon people, we can do it!

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UberDork
7/2/23 6:29 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

In reply to racerfink :

When folks started saying 2000 posts I was skeptical bit now I'm thinking it's possible.

Many things are possible.  Even EVs will one day overtake the ICE.  The only question I have is how painful will it be.  There are many factors adding to that pain and many are captured in this thread.  

Tom1200
Tom1200 PowerDork
7/2/23 6:38 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Even EVs will one day overtake the ICE. 

Still don't see it happening. They are not the panacea they've been made out to be and at some point the general public will catch on to that.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
7/2/23 7:42 p.m.

 Ignore the hype.  They are so much simpler than ICE   No transmission a simple electric motor that goes forward and backwards without the need for a transmission to overcome the ICE's inefficiency. (  low power at low RPM). Electric motors make peak torque out of the hole!!  
 

 

 

 Read the article  In April's Grassroots.   Tells both the good and bad.    
    Where else can you buy a new car with 500 hp, good handling, and a nice ride for as little as $41,990 ( up to 52,XXX)  And get a $7500 tax rebate.?  
     In Minnesota that nets out to be $31,990 , yes plus tax and delivery and any options. 
 A New car  ! 
  
  One more point. Because they are so simple a very early one already has a million miles on it ( it only took 2 batteries to go that far.). Plus plenty of others have notably high mileage.  
  I  understand your feelings. I used to think Cheap Japanese cars couldn't possibly be good.  Then I started to sell Honda civics.  Customers convinced me otherwise. 
 Maybe you're like me?  Have something to learn?  

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