David S. Wallens said:Indy - Guy said:How will we reach 100 pages if it gets locked?
Keep the conversation civil and respectful, and it stays open.
But if it doesn't get to 2000 posts I have no basis for demanding a free T-shirt and declaring myself a forum deity.....
Steve_Jones said:CyberEric said:I'll be honest, I would love to see the mods shut this thread down. Just me, but I'm longing for something more interesting at this point. If I'm the only one, carry on. :)
Why? Someone forcing you to click on it? Don't like it? Don't read it.
This. I'm a poster child for not being able to resist an argument, and even I'm having no trouble bypassing this except for the occasional Energizer Bunny check-ins.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
I appreciate you moving it along.
It also occurred me that my demand of a free T-shirt at post 2000 may net me an "I love EVs" T-shirt.
In reply to Tom1200 :
Close, more like an "I love Frenchy" shirt if I have a say
CyberEric said:I'll be honest, I would love to see the mods shut this thread down. Just me, but I'm longing for something more interesting at this point. If I'm the only one, carry on. :)
It isn't really about EVs anymore. Just two or three guys bashing Frenchy.
I'm getting bored. It may die on it's own soon.
Boost_Crazy said:In reply to frenchyd :
First. Are you aware that NYC is Buying a Giga battery system from Tesla. The city has enough power to meet needs except during peak demand times. By buying power during off peak periods when it's cheap. He can sell sell it for a really serious profit.
Down n Texas it's a 50-1 payback. I don't know the deal in Australia But that was the first conversion. In 100 days they shut down a coal fired power plant and ran the whole area 100% on renewables.
Can you please explain the 50-1 payback in Texas?
I also couldn't find any info on Tesla selling a battery system to NYC AND buying and selling the stored power at a profit, which really wouldn't make any sense. I believe you got most of the details wrong- the buyer, the seller, and who profits from the energy storage. But it does highlight an issue that bothers me. This does nothing to help the residents that ultimately pay for their power. Rather than build infrastructure to keep up with demands of the customers, they penalize customers with higher rates to control their use. Then they allow 3rd party companies (from what I can see, these projects are run by 3rd party developers who purchase the equipment and sell the power at a higher rate) to profit off of the end users who are being underserved.
I'm not sure where Elon got that number. Could it have been the storm they had a while back that shut down the power? They didn't give any numbers on the day to day payback. By buying electricity when it's in surplus and reselling it when there is a shortage?
To be honest that's a pure guess. I heard some pretty horrible numbers on Texas Electric bill following that storm. But Elon said it when he was discussing his battery pack. He said it was going to be a major revenue source.
Like I said there is an Iron Oxide going up in Georgia. ( not Tesla ).
I'll go back and find more details on NYC
You do make a valid point. Having a 3 rd party "Fix" an area's electric problem is simply going to add more cost to electric bills.
Nothing is free.
Infrastructure primarily means power plants to generate more electricity to meet demand.
When some of that demand can be met with private party's renewables.
There isn't the same costs to customers as building a giant generating plant to meet anticipated needs.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
If it appears to be dying I shall come up with something to milk it another 18 posts........see my next post.
We haven't even discussed EV aircraft................perhaps in light aircraft personal drones they might work OK.
Steve_Jones said:David S. Wallens said:Time for us to press pause on this thread?
Why? Who is forcing them to read it? i will never understand the mentality of wanting a thread locked because you don't like it.
It’s not a matter of whether or not I like a thread. It’s a matter of hosting a place for healthy discussion where people treat each other with respect.
racerfink said:In reply to frenchyd :
If you ever need electrical work done, I REALLY hope that you hire experienced electricians, and not people who will just do what you tell them because you pay them nicely, because it's clear you have a 2nd grade understanding of electricity.
3 points.
Between Boot camp and flight training. The Navy didn't want me sitting around doing nothing so they sent me to Aviation electronics technician school.
I learned how to trouble shoot and fix systems like radar, MAD, Julie, Jezzabell, Plus the systems in Airplanes.
In 2012 I sold wind generators in Minnesota, Iowa, & Wisconsin. To do that I had to study and pass each states testing regimen. Plus be able to speak to Lawyers, Bankers , farmers and friends of farmers. $110,000 ( starting cost) requires. A great deal of understanding and proof before you commit that sort of money .
But using 3 rd party numbers to base projected savings/ income. Gave me a great deal of credibility. We typically used 10 year averages broken down month by month but we provided a 50 year annual record summation to allow them to verify the legitimacy of those numbers. Ask I'll summarize some of those for you.
Finally. I designed and installed my own electrical system for this house. It passed inspection without comment.
Tom1200 said:We haven't even discussed EV aircraft................perhaps in light aircraft personal drones they might work OK.
Tom while at this point every Airplane EV is experimental so far they are doing very well. Realize that a 200 hp EV motor will weigh about 200 ponds ( VW 200 hp 200#s Tesla 200hp 196 pounds ) Ok A 200 horsepower Continental is heavier( I'll look it up for you). . That EV will also go massively longer without maintenance than an ICE will.
I don't have the weight of a 500 or 800 horsepower motor but it shouldn't be too bad. And I'm guessing a lot lighter than An ICE.
I haven't found a 200 hp ICE engine yet but the Continental 200 series makes 100 hp and weighs 147 pounds without accessories like. Starter, carburetor, magneto etc.
It's not the motors that are heavy for ev's it's the batteries. Sure the engine is 200 lbs compared to an IO360 at 330lbs, but how many batteries is it going to take to have any decent range with any decent margin of error? Add in the ever changing climate those batteries have to perform in. The air temp at 15,000ft isn't the same as 800' in June.
edit: 2022 ev6 light pack weighs 852lbs for 240 miles of range. The long range pack weighs 1,052lbs for 310 mile range. So you have to carry that half a ton at all times, unlike an ice that loses weight as it flies and uses fuel, becoming slightly more efficient as it goes.
at ~6lbs per gallon that would be 150-175 gallons of fuel. That same 195hp io360 burns around 7 gallons per hour at cruise in a 172. Cruise speed is 140mph. That would be between 21 to 25 hours of flight time, or a range of 3,000 to 3,500 miles.
80 pages.
You guys rock.
Come on 90!!
Tom1200 said:We haven't even discussed EV aircraft................perhaps in light aircraft personal drones they might work OK.
Have you guys seen the most recent "Grand Tour"
Episode? They had an actual flying car do a demonstration. Imagine if it were electric. That would be the best of both worlds!
In reply to Steve_Jones :
I do. It's called censorship and it's about as anti-American as it gets. It's antithetical to free speech. I actually upvote downvoted unpopular posts. Bad ideas or incomplete information don't make the person a bad person. We live in a world where lots of good people have some pretty bad ideas. Making censorship mainstream, acceptable or even cool is one of the worst.
In reply to frenchyd :
No the grid and grid upgrades are a huge necessity. Most power is lost in transmission. Enron actually games this to cause rolling blackouts and raise rates. They also cooked the books. Transmission losses and reducing them would be a huge step on the road to the EV dream. Sadly just like this thread you can't get groups of people to do much unless it serves self interest anymore.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
I admire the idealism but that place doesn't exist. Calling people names and censoring them isn't healthy or respectful. Both are done here often but mostly by people on one side of most issues. We live in a world where questioning the commonly held belief is now punishable by any and all means thinkable. It isn't healthy or respectful but I don't see where most are willing to even question it. Need examples?
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
I disagree that down votes are censorship. Down votes communicate dislike. Suggesting that the down votes shouldn't exist is actually a form of censorship.
David is a senior employee of the company that owns this website. They can choose whatever they desire to publish, or to avoid publishing. The choice they have made is to give the readers a method of communicating disapproval (down votes), which can lead to a post being less visible. But it isn't censored or removed. Honestly, I think that is pretty generous.
It's David's job to make sure that GRM offers a marketable and profitable product in what they choose to publish. Honestly, I'm surprised he doesn't lock this thread (or remove it entirely) because I am not always convinced that threads like this reflect well on GRM or the product they are selling. It's a private company. They have no obligation to print the garbage that is posted here at times. I believe the down vote process is strong evidence showing their commitment to having a place where people can discuss things openly without censorship.
Thank you David (and GRM staff) for making the hard choice to put up with the crap we put you through at times.
Don't forget that flying electric vehicles have to be giant drones, so multiple electric motors direct drive to the fans. Think of a Vertical Take Off Flying Bass Boat that fits in a single car garage. Or 9'x20'
Toyman! said:80 pages.
You guys rock.
Come on 90!!
I'm just trying to get this bad boy to 2000 posts; Deity status is only 4 posts away.
In reply to SV reX :
It's censorship. Writing a wall of text beating around the bush doesn't prove otherwise. You are hiding things you don't like from others (suppression). It may not be as brutal as other examples (execution) but it's on the same path. Just because something is socially acceptable at some point it time doesn't make it right. Censorship is now socially acceptable.
You are suppressing ideas. Companies are not exempt from the laws of the lands they operate in. Only pure fascism gives companies unlimited power over people.
I also find arguing points with people that can't even define what they are talking about most disappointing. Many on this site freaked out when I offered a simple definition of inflation (an increase in the supply of money). Here is censorship defined for all to ponder.
From OK state, "In its broadest sense [censorship] refers to suppression of information, ideas, or artistic expression by anyone."
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Freedom of speech carries no obligation to openly cover all subjects. It merely protects the right to make those choices.
There are radically Liberal publications which would never choose to publish anything with a Conservative bent. And there are radically Conservative publications that would never publish a word of Liberal perspective. Both are free to publish what they choose, and neither has any obligation to publish opposing views.
They are free to speak about a subject, or to not speak.
If you disagree, you are free to publish your own opinion. In your own publication.
Nothing has been removed. It's not censorship. If you want to read it, it's still there to read.
In reply to SV reX :
Furthermore you just referred to the owner of this website as a publisher. That definitely has legal implications in regards to censorship.
As for me personally as a person that cares about others and the future of society, I find failing to speak out against censorship in all forms to be a moral deficiency. I'm not going to compromise truth and morals just to appease people, which is what you'd like me to do. Too much of what is right and just has already been compromised in the name of "just getting along." And the sad reality is at the end of the day you and others censor myself and others solely for disagreeing with you. I'd tell you exactly what I think of that, but that would be a real violation of forum rules and disrespectful to the owners and others.
You can keep saying this isn't censorship just like some dude keeps saying he reduced the deficit over $1 trillion, neither will ever be true. And that's my ultimate beef here. There is a real inability to discuss things to discern what is true and what is not inspite of all the "open and honest discussion" posturing. Not much could be further from the truth.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Well look at that. We disagree, and no one got censored!
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