New Prius is pretty awesome. Prius Prime has a battery only range of nearly 40 miles, and you can get it all wheel drive with something like 230 horsepower. And it finally looks decent! We're considering that for our next one.
New Prius is pretty awesome. Prius Prime has a battery only range of nearly 40 miles, and you can get it all wheel drive with something like 230 horsepower. And it finally looks decent! We're considering that for our next one.
frenchyd said:......
..... Some countries Tesla's are 70% of new car sales but in many nations Tesla #1 new car sold.
Name one country that Tesla is 70% of new car sales.
Appleseed said:Indy - Guy said:If this ship makes it to 100, it's going to be due to about 3 or 4 eager participants
Or those of us entertained enough to keep pissing gasoline on this dumpster fire.
It's like a train wreck in your home town that you just can't stop glancing at.
Saw this video and thought it might be applicable to this thread. I haven't read this thread, otherwise.
In reply to stroker :
I've seen and heard about that sorta thing too. Currently China is at least 51 Trillion in debt ( numbers on up to 70 trillion)
They also have a 100+ car factories most of who are surviving on government hand outs . China needs to find a way to survive as the world changes.
In reply to frenchyd :
Those people expecting a RHD model are going to be disappointed to find it's just an LHD truck and a grabber stick.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/tesla-gave-uk-owners-this-clawed-backscratcher-instead-of-right-hand-drive
frenchyd said:I guess I follow Elon Musk much Closer. Because I see the preproduction trucks going down the assembly line. I also see the Other 9 ton Giga press being assembled so the next production line will come on. (Don't know how many lines initially)
As far as the model 2 goes. They are working on the factory in Mexico. But it shouldn't be ready until the 3 rd quarter of next year. I'll let you know when they let me get my order in.
Part of the delay with the cyber truck is batteries. The 4680's they will be using are in very short supply. And it takes a lot of them.
That's also what is holding up the Semi. -Batteries.
Speculation on ride quality etc in the German testing comes from 2021 not recently.
Finally dated line up? The model 3 already has an updated version due out this year. Called the highlander. And following that the Model Y will get its up date. Both the S & X are too small a niche market to have frequent updates.
What about VW? Remember when they had adds advertising " How Long can we keep selling you this Line?" Or the Porsche 911I'm trying to remember how long sold the Ford Model T.
Frankly as long as Tesla steadily improves the car I'll be happy.
I don't want money spent on the latest styling gimmick I'd rather they improve the battery pack or make it safer as an autonomous vehicle. ( by the way that is something that every Tesla automatically does ). If there is a tricky intersection in New York it will learn how to deal with that before the one in Kansas. Simply because there will be more cars passing the New York one.
Following Elon closely seems to just be believing his sales pitch regardless of real world evidence. How are batteries preventing him from delivering semis but not stopping anyone else. They lack of any testing data being released from a man who lives to self promote would point to them not living up to his claims. Add in a poor layout that makes it impractical to use and it's likely that batteries aren't the holdup, but a convenient excuse for people that rely on him for all their news.
Model Ts were made for a long time. They were pretty much the only really practical car at the time and buyers were happy to not be walking. Those days are gone. Similar for the Beetle. They were inexpensive and simple, making them popular for people on a budget. Teslas are at the opposite end of the spectrum. More confusing is the decline in build quality as time goes on, perhaps due to wear in the dies and rushed assembly.
I've ignored self driving to this point but it's another area where the carnival barker lags. Inferior hardware and development, and a pitch that has owners believing their cars drive themselves is a safety risk. You're assessment that it would due better in a city has proven to be inaccurate as well. Having more variables like pedestrians and double parked vehicles cause cautious AVs to stop and Teslas to hit things. Fairly empty open roads are the only places they really do well right now.
In reply to preach :
Studies have been conducted, sitting still in traffic in an EV isn't going to kill a battery any sooner than a gas car will run out of fuel. It's easy to find videos supporting either side. After hurricane Sandy my parents had power in a day but waited in line for three hours to get gas for over a week. They could have just kept a car plugged in and come out ahead.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
My house does not support an EV charger. It can barely support a window AC.
EDIT: and my rate doubled last year. From $100/mo to $220/mo.
EDIT2: I am the perfect candidate for an EV commuter otherwise. Just less than 40 miles round trip per day. I am dying for Alpha to start producing cars, so I can really think on it.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:frenchyd said:I guess I follow Elon Musk much Closer. Because I see the preproduction trucks going down the assembly line. I also see the Other 9 ton Giga press being assembled so the next production line will come on. (Don't know how many lines initially)
As far as the model 2 goes. They are working on the factory in Mexico. But it shouldn't be ready until the 3 rd quarter of next year. I'll let you know when they let me get my order in.
Part of the delay with the cyber truck is batteries. The 4680's they will be using are in very short supply. And it takes a lot of them.
That's also what is holding up the Semi. -Batteries.
Speculation on ride quality etc in the German testing comes from 2021 not recently.
Finally dated line up? The model 3 already has an updated version due out this year. Called the highlander. And following that the Model Y will get its up date. Both the S & X are too small a niche market to have frequent updates.
What about VW? Remember when they had adds advertising " How Long can we keep selling you this Line?" Or the Porsche 911I'm trying to remember how long sold the Ford Model T.
Frankly as long as Tesla steadily improves the car I'll be happy.
I don't want money spent on the latest styling gimmick I'd rather they improve the battery pack or make it safer as an autonomous vehicle. ( by the way that is something that every Tesla automatically does ). If there is a tricky intersection in New York it will learn how to deal with that before the one in Kansas. Simply because there will be more cars passing the New York one.
Following Elon closely seems to just be believing his sales pitch regardless of real world evidence. How are batteries preventing him from delivering semis but not stopping anyone else. They lack of any testing data being released from a man who lives to self promote would point to them not living up to his claims. Add in a poor layout that makes it impractical to use and it's likely that batteries aren't the holdup, but a convenient excuse for people that rely on him for all their news.
Model Ts were made for a long time. They were pretty much the only really practical car at the time and buyers were happy to not be walking. Those days are gone. Similar for the Beetle. They were inexpensive and simple, making them popular for people on a budget. Teslas are at the opposite end of the spectrum. More confusing is the decline in build quality as time goes on, perhaps due to wear in the dies and rushed assembly.
I've ignored self driving to this point but it's another area where the carnival barker lags. Inferior hardware and development, and a pitch that has owners believing their cars drive themselves is a safety risk. You're assessment that it would due better in a city has proven to be inaccurate as well. Having more variables like pedestrians and double parked vehicles cause cautious AVs to stop and Teslas to hit things. Fairly empty open roads are the only places they really do well right now.
Wally the 3680 battery which both the Cyber Truck and the Semi are based on are basically made by people on an assembly line. To meet the required volume Tesla is buying those from BYD who does have a fully automated assembly line. And can produce the required volume to meet the needs of Global sales.
Including the new Model Y and Model 3 Highlander.
However for Sales in America to meet the requirements. Batteries would be required to be made with American lithium ( or Australian) and that's not available yet.
It takes 10 million batteries to operate 12,000 cars.
In the second quarter of this year Tesla sold 500,000 cars. On target to reach a Million by the end of the year.
But these are relatively low volume cars. Both the S & the X are high dollar niche cars. Selling for around $100,000
The model 3 and Y are average priced cars. ( average new car price is now $48, 000)
The real volume is coming from the model 2 ( at $25,000) Global sales of 7 million a year in that price range. and the cyber Truck ( Trucks are 20% of American new car sales)
Considering the model S & X Are low volume niche cars I don't expect new body metal Any time soon.
But only 3 years after introduction the model 3 has major improvements ( Highlander ) . And the Y will be out this fall with its major improvements.
Between the new cyber truck and the model 2 plus the semi. There is plenty new stuff for those impressed by sheet metal.
Talk to Tesla owners or own Kieth Tanner for example he's got a post on everything since he bought it 3 years ago ( I wish I could figure out how to link) But everybody I've talked to about Tesla sings it's praises.
There is a guy on U Tube who tears down new cars and reports to the companies the good, bad, and questionable. He sings Tesla's praise.
For example he says" the front seats of Tesla are the most comfortable seats he's ever used. He and his son took a model 3 on an 8500 mile trip and never once found a Tesla supercharger out of order. He said range anxiety quickly disappeared He ran the car in the 80% to 20% range without a bit of range anxiety.
Finally almost all manufactures have a version of Self driving. What Tesla's goal is autonomous driving. The prime goal is to get lousy drivers off the road and let the computer keep people safe.
You can call for a cab and an autonomous cab will arrive. Since no driver is required the trip will cost a lot less ( and no tip required).
Many people won't even need a car. Those that only drive to the doctors and grocery store for example.
preach said:In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
My house does not support an EV charger. It can barely support a window AC.
EDIT: and my rate doubled last year. From $100/mo to $220/mo.
EDIT2: I am the perfect candidate for an EV commuter otherwise. Just less than 40 miles round trip per day. I am dying for Alpha to start producing cars, so I can really think on it.
Chevy's bolt is one that plugs into 110 volt outlet and draws Only 20 amps.
With a 40 mile commute you can start charging after you go to bed and have a full "tank" by morning.
GM's best selling EV only costs $4400 in China ( if they ever bring it here to America)
frenchyd said:preach said:In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
My house does not support an EV charger. It can barely support a window AC.
EDIT: and my rate doubled last year. From $100/mo to $220/mo.
EDIT2: I am the perfect candidate for an EV commuter otherwise. Just less than 40 miles round trip per day. I am dying for Alpha to start producing cars, so I can really think on it.
Chevy's bolt is one that plugs into 110 volt outlet and draws Only 20 amps.
With a 40 mile commute you can start charging after you go to bed and have a full "tank" by morning.
GM's best selling EV only costs $4400 in China ( if they ever bring it here to America)
You must sleep a lot as even GM says 4 miles per hour, so 10 hours to get the 40 miles.
Still waiting on the country that Tesla is 70% of new car sales as well.
Indy - Guy said:frenchyd said:......
..... Some countries Tesla's are 70% of new car sales but in many nations Tesla #1 new car sold.
Name one country that Tesla is 70% of new car sales.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge any question.... dodge, dip, duck, dive..... dodge, dip, duck, dive
In reply to frenchyd :
We have a Bolt at work but haven't gotten a charger installed for it yet. Charging on 110 has been very slow, it would not be practical as someone's only car.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
One thing. All self driving vehicles are required to have an alert driver behind the wheel. Chevy, Ford, Tesla everybody.
But Tesla is at least 2 models ahead of competition.
They recently started shipping new cars out with hardware 4. ( better and more camera's.).
The whole autonomous driving thing is going to come by experience. The computer will learn everyplace in the world. Accidents will lead to a better algorithm. Etc.
I'll admit I'm not a perfect driver. No one is. Not even a computer. But against some of the Yahoos out there, I know I'm a lot better. If they would use the computer to drive I'll be happy to turn my driving over to the computer and I'll bet accidents go way down.
If I want to feel control I'll do it on a race track. Or maybe the back roads.
In reply to frenchyd :
We have a guy at work that bought his second recently, the drop in build quality from the first is stunning. He's waiting on an appointment to get a rear door looked at because it leaks. If a base model Hyundai had done that 30 years ago they'd have been laughed out of the country. Looking at other newer ones the fit and finish seems sloppy on a lot of them. People get dazzled by the tech and overlook the basics, that at this point in time a factory should be able to screw a car together pretty well.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
We have a Bolt at work but haven't gotten a charger installed for it yet. Charging on 110 has been very slow, it would not be practical as someone's only car.
The new bolt has 200? Mile range?
Average daily commute is 35 miles.
So for the average person who plugs in every night it will be fully charged.
And even if it's 50-70 miles it will still have range left at the end of the week.
The 80-20 rule is what people need to learn. Charge it to 80% and drive it to 20%
That's when chargers work the fastest.
I don't know the deal GM and ford have to allow them to use the Tesla superchargers, ( by the way it's now Tesla Ford GM Volvo Mercedes Rivian, Lucian, VW (?) SAE )
But instead of sitting at chargers for hours now they will recharge in 15 minutes or so. About the time it takes to go to the bathroom and grab a hotdog.
In reply to frenchyd :
I have not heard anyone that tried more than one system say Tesla's is the best. It's the least cautious which some people equate to troublefree but it is not by any measure the safest. Everything I've read comparing them puts GMs and Fords ahead, almost like having real engineering and development experience leads to better results.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sef-driving-not-in-top-ranked-autonomy-guidehouse-research-2023-3?amp
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:Indy - Guy said:frenchyd said:......
..... Some countries Tesla's are 70% of new car sales but in many nations Tesla #1 new car sold.
Name one country that Tesla is 70% of new car sales.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge any question.... dodge, dip, duck, dive..... dodge, dip, duck, dive
Norway
frenchyd said:Wally (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
We have a Bolt at work but haven't gotten a charger installed for it yet. Charging on 110 has been very slow, it would not be practical as someone's only car.
The new bolt has 200? Mile range?
Average daily commute is 35 miles.
So for the average person who plugs in every night it will be fully charged.
And even if it's 50-70 miles it will still have range left at the end of the week.
The 80-20 rule is what people need to learn. Charge it to 80% and drive it to 20%That's when chargers work the fastest.
I don't know the deal GM and ford have to allow them to use the Tesla superchargers, ( by the way it's now Tesla Ford GM Volvo Mercedes Rivian, Lucian, VW (?) SAE )But instead of sitting at chargers for hours now they will recharge in 15 minutes or so. About the time it takes to go to the bathroom and grab a hotdog.
Try again. GM says 4 miles per hour on 110. You say fully charged overnight, GM says your 200 mile charge would take 50 hours. How long are nights in MN?
frenchyd said:Wally (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
We have a Bolt at work but haven't gotten a charger installed for it yet. Charging on 110 has been very slow, it would not be practical as someone's only car.
The new bolt has 200? Mile range?
Average daily commute is 35 miles.
So for the average person who plugs in every night it will be fully charged.
And even if it's 50-70 miles it will still have range left at the end of the week.
The 80-20 rule is what people need to learn. Charge it to 80% and drive it to 20%That's when chargers work the fastest.
I don't know the deal GM and ford have to allow them to use the Tesla superchargers, ( by the way it's now Tesla Ford GM Volvo Mercedes Rivian, Lucian, VW (?) SAE )But instead of sitting at chargers for hours now they will recharge in 15 minutes or so. About the time it takes to go to the bathroom and grab a hotdog.
You keep ignoring real world results to push nonsense you read on the web. If you're in a house like preach brought up, and you're plugging it into a 110 outlet it's going to take a while, not practical for someone to rely on every day. For two weeks now our newest one has been working off a 110 outlet and it's less than ideal for a car expected to be available 24/7. I'm ambitious and I wouldn't own one without a dedicated charger.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
It's definitely not a 4 hour full charge. Ours was delivered on 8 percent and we left it plugged in for about 30 hours to get it up into the 90s. After that it's stayed charged up enough to live with but coming up from nothing is a long process.
frenchyd said:AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:Indy - Guy said:frenchyd said:......
..... Some countries Tesla's are 70% of new car sales but in many nations Tesla #1 new car sold.
Name one country that Tesla is 70% of new car sales.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge any question.... dodge, dip, duck, dive..... dodge, dip, duck, dive
Norway
17% is almost 70% right?
frenchyd said:AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:Indy - Guy said:frenchyd said:......
..... Some countries Tesla's are 70% of new car sales but in many nations Tesla #1 new car sold.
Name one country that Tesla is 70% of new car sales.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge any question.... dodge, dip, duck, dive..... dodge, dip, duck, dive
Norway
No, just no.
80% of new cars sold in Norway were electric. 12% of those were Teslas.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/electric-vehicle-europe-norway-tesla-sales/
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