I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs.

In reply to frenchyd :

Your condescension is not appreciated. Your ignorance is annoying. There are places in the western half of this country where it's difficult to get fuel, let alone finding a charging station. Is it getting better? Sure. Is it there? No. Maybe you have never been west of the mississippi and not seen the vastness that is the western half of this country. I highly recommend you do because it is beautiful and empty and not full of people like you that know everything. 

frenchyd said:

STM317 said:

frenchyd said:

Racingsnake said:

frenchyd said:

I just got tired of giving away $50-70  every time I pulled into one of those places. 

Not tired enough to buy an EV yet tho lol

The EV I want isn't in production. 
  If you recall I was very interested  in the Chevy Bolt.  At $28,000,  but the batteries  continue to be an issue and the charging network isn't as good. Plus GM announced they were discontinuing production.  
     When Tesla Announced the series 2  ( at $25,000) I decided to wait.  
    It is projected to have longer range with safer batteries. Plus access to the best charging network available.  
  While you may be willing to take whatever is available I prefer to make my selection carefully. 

You may prefer to make your selection carefully, but apparently not carefully enough to realize that the Model 2 is still imaginary and unconfirmed.

For the last time, Tesla hasn't announced anything regarding the Model 2. Everything that you're spouting in regard to an inexpensive new Tesla is speculation and rumor. Musk breifly mentioned it and hinted that it might happen eventually but that's super vague even by his standards.

You're an overweight guy in his mid 70s. You're not getting any younger. Each day that you spend waiting for a unicorn Model 2 is a day that could've been spent cruising quietly and effortlessly in any of the $25k EVs that are currently available. Instead of going out and actually buying an EV right now that meets your needs, you're pinning your hopes on a mythical cheap Tesla Model 2 that's likely years away if it ever happens at all.

With each of your posts it becomes more obvious that you're not going to actually buy an EV like you're imploring others to do. Or you're going to waste your final days waiting for something, and then find a flaw in it if it does eventually become reality.

Oh a guessing game now?   Well I predict you're going to win a big lottery  and waste all your money on hookers and blow..  

Let's  see which happens first .  Your prediction or mine.   

You're ignoring perfectly good EVs right now to wait and see what might be out there in a few years.  That's not at all like playing the lottery. It would be more like choosing to play the lottery while ignoring CDs that pay 5% guaranteed.

You talk like this purchase has to last you 30 years, so it's worth taking your time to see what's out there on the horizon. I'm sorry to say that you probably don't have 30 years left, so you might as well enjoy your time. You've been telling everybody for 80 some pages that EVs are currently good enough for their use, but you're not willing to back those claims up with your own money. You could have a Bolt or used Tesla today for your budget, and yet you're comfortable to sit back and burn precious time waiting for something that may never happen.

If there's no EV on the market that's good enough for you to buy right now, then all of your posts telling others that EVs are great and will meet their needs are completely hollow. That (and the often incorrect numbers you spout) are why you get so much push back. Instead of just saying "Man, EVs are cool and I can't wait for one that meets my needs" you've been preaching for months and it's empty and tired.

For the record I would likely lose all my money from lotto winnings on hookers and blow, racer cars and airplanes. If I survived I'd be broke in 3 years. Count on it.

bobzilla said:

For the record I would likely lose all my money from lotto winnings on hookers and blow, racer cars and airplanes. 

I'd probably lose 50% to the same, the rest I would waste.

bobzilla said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Your condescension is not appreciated. Your ignorance is annoying. There are places in the western half of this country where it's difficult to get fuel, let alone finding a charging station. Is it getting better? Sure. Is it there? No. Maybe you have never been west of the mississippi and not seen the vastness that is the western half of this country. I highly recommend you do because it is beautiful and empty and not full of people like you that know everything. 

Your assumption is false

  If you'd bother to check a map I live west of the Mississippi. Your post ignores postings since I began. I spent 7 years in SanDiego and probably 25-30 trips  from San Diego  to home.  
      As I said Sandy Munro traveled 8500 miles in a Tesla out west.  
Without one bit of range anxiety. 

 Ask Kieth Tanner about living in Colorado for the past 3 years with his Tesla. 
   

In reply to bobzilla & Steve_Jones :

Also:

In reply to Indy - Guy :

I think the current PB is like 700Million.... so that would be.... a lot at the same time. 

Tom1200 said:

So in an effort to get this 13 more pages:

Have we talked about EV RVs?............Amazon has electric vans on Sprinter style chassis. How viable will these be????

A solar array on the roof could run all the house stuff. The vans will supposedly go 150 miles...........you're in an RV so not not in a hurry. 

I'll do what I can to help Hit 100. 
   You realize that if fuel stays the same price and you live 25 years past retirement  you'll spend around $35,000 for fuel?  
   I'm cheap too.  My neighbors with them are always happy to tell me how much they save with them and how good they are.  
     You commented about buying a used car.  Well, that's what we are going to get rid of. A used car.  
    Her Daughter who bought a Fit  had enough trouble with it she traded it in for a Dodge.   ( yeh, not my choice either)  

   So the question isn't a different used car. But a new ICE. Or a new EV.  If so which one?   
        If someone forced you  at gun point to buy a New EV. From what you know, which would you pick? 

bobzilla said:

For the record I would likely lose all my money from lotto winnings on hookers and blow, racer cars and airplanes. If I survived I'd be broke in 3 years. Count on it.

This is my plan as well.

Steve_Jones said:

bobzilla said:

For the record I would likely lose all my money from lotto winnings on hookers and blow, racer cars and airplanes. 

I'd probably lose 50% to the same, the rest I would waste.

Steve;   
  Let me ask you the same question please.   If someone pointed a gun at you and said pick an EV   Which one would you pick    
  You can't pick wrong.  Because this is just pretend and there are no wrong answers.  

In general if you aren't on board with EV's that's ok.  They are just a emerging new tech that is in general working out really well and super cheap to run.  I'm 50K miles into a Model 3 performance that is the fastest thing I've owned and is literally trouble free.  There will be more great EV's and hybrids flowing the market momentarily, many of which will have significant improvements over what is currently out there.

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

bobzilla said:

For the record I would likely lose all my money from lotto winnings on hookers and blow, racer cars and airplanes. If I survived I'd be broke in 3 years. Count on it.

This is my plan as well.

I'm not sure I'd make 2 years.   And I'd skip the airplanes. 

84FSP said:

In general if you aren't on board with EV's that's ok.  They are just a emerging new tech that is in general working out really well and super cheap to run.  I'm 50K miles into a Model 3 performance that is the fastest thing I've owned and is literally trouble free.  There will be more great EV's and hybrids flowing the market momentarily, many of which will have significant improvements over what is currently out there.

Well said.  I do agree with every word.  
Especially the part about if you aren't on board with EV's. That's OK. 

frenchyd said:

........

  Let me ask you the same question please.   If someone pointed a gun at you and said pick an EV   Which one would you pick    
  You can't pick wrong.  Because this is just pretend and there are no wrong answers.  

   

Can I play?

First off, I wouldn't buy new.  I'm too poor & or frugal.  I'm nearly 50 years old and have never purchased a new vehicle in my entire life, so why start now.  But for fear of death, (spending imaginary money) It would be a Tesla Model S Plaid.  In the USA today, Tesla has the best charging network.

frenchyd said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Your condescension is not appreciated. Your ignorance is annoying. There are places in the western half of this country where it's difficult to get fuel, let alone finding a charging station. Is it getting better? Sure. Is it there? No. Maybe you have never been west of the mississippi and not seen the vastness that is the western half of this country. I highly recommend you do because it is beautiful and empty and not full of people like you that know everything. 

Your assumption is false

  If you'd bother to check a map I live west of the Mississippi. Your post ignores postings since I began. I spent 7 years in SanDiego and probably 25-30 trips  from San Diego  to home.  
      As I said Sandy Munro traveled 8500 miles in a Tesla out west.  
Without one bit of range anxiety. 

 Ask Kieth Tanner about living in Colorado for the past 3 years with his Tesla. 
   

No, your ignorance is false. There are placed in New Mexico, west texas where it gets very sparse and you need to plan your fuel stops. I've been there, done that, had range anxiety with an ICE. EV isn't there for that yet. Keith lives in Grand Junction area, not exactly the wastelands of the desert. I-70 is your main east/west road with exits and stops within 50-ish miles of each other. Not sure what the charging station situation looks like because I really don't give a berkeley. 

There used to be a stretch from west of Amarillo to Tucumcari, NM, and from there to Albequerque that all the stations were closed after 10pm, so driving through the night you had to plan ahead or just stop and sleep at a rest stop. When you fuel range was about 180 miles it gets iffy quick. 

I'm glad Sandy Munro is your hero. I don't know who that is nor do I, once again, give a berkeley. There ARE places where range is an issue. I mean you won't even buy a berkeleying electric car, nor install "free" electricity but you will sit on your high horse and tell all of us how dumb we are for not wanting one. Old age has not done you any favors. 

frenchyd said:

Tom1200 said:

So in an effort to get this 13 more pages:

Have we talked about EV RVs?............Amazon has electric vans on Sprinter style chassis. How viable will these be????

A solar array on the roof could run all the house stuff. The vans will supposedly go 150 miles...........you're in an RV so not not in a hurry. 

I'll do what I can to help Hit 100. 
   You realize that if fuel stays the same price and you live 25 years past retirement  you'll spend around $35,000 for fuel?  
   I'm cheap too.  My neighbors with them are always happy to tell me how much they save with them and how good they are.  
     You commented about buying a used car.  Well, that's what we are going to get rid of. A used car.  
    Her Daughter who bought a Fit  had enough trouble with it she traded it in for a Dodge.   ( yeh, not my choice either)  

   So the question isn't a different used car. But a new ICE. Or a new EV.  If so which one?   
        If someone forced you  at gun point to buy a New EV. From what you know, which would you pick? 

break down your numbers. Since you make E36 M3 up so often, show your work. Because $35k of fuel in my vehicles with current gas prices is around 410k miles. currently we are driving about 15k combined, so that's 30 years of driving? 

Your imaginary numbers also seem to forget corrosion maintenance and failures. Not everyone lives in a rust free environment. What are we looking at here for repairs? Electrical corrosion long term? chassis still is going to corrode and wear out. Sure, you may only need 2 sets of batteries but how much other stuff are we looking at long term? 

Indy - Guy said:

frenchyd said:

........

  Let me ask you the same question please.   If someone pointed a gun at you and said pick an EV   Which one would you pick    
  You can't pick wrong.  Because this is just pretend and there are no wrong answers.  

   

Can I play?

 

First off, I wouldn't buy new.  I'm too poor & or frugal.  I'm nearly 50 years old and have never purchased a new vehicle in my entire life, so why start now.  But for fear of death, (spending imaginary money) It would be a Tesla Model S Plaid.  In the USA today, Tesla has the best charging network.

Well, first off I'm shooting first. No lie. If we are at that point I don't want to live here anymore and I will take as many of those fascists with me as I can. Not like I got kids to worry about. They've probably already shot my dog and wife anyway so might as well go down blazing. Hopefully helps the next person that doesn't want to live under that type of rule to rise up, resist and rebel. 

frenchyd said:

      As I said Sandy Munro traveled 8500 miles in a Tesla out west.  
Without one bit of range anxiety. 

Also part of his analysis, he doesn't understand why they continue to not hire professionals and how they are selling such poorly assembled cars: 

"With a gauge tool, Munro evaluated the panel gaps. To be fair, he did not even need it to see the front right door has a big alignment problem. Near to the A-pillar, it is so close to the car’s body that he even thought the door kissed it, but that was not the case. At the bottom of the door, it was more than 5 millimeters distant from the body.

Munro did not hold back his disappointment with such build issues. He said he does not understand how Tesla can still have them after so much time and that this is not acceptable. The engineer also said it is the easiest thing to fix. Yet – and despite all the professionals he recommended Tesla to hire – the problems are still there.

Munro stressed that this is necessary for Tesla to “take over all the market and not just the market that you have now.” Coincidence or not, it is precisely on the car's right side that most of the spontaneous glass-shattering episodeshappened.

Munro also found issues on the door closing efforts, on the deck lid, the rear right door, and the taillights, which present big gaps."

IDK why there is a reason to debate EVs this much. Eventually the world will decide you must drive an EV and you will comply. And you are not going to shoot anyone over that either, you will simply be an EV owner and another keyboard warrior. 

Once the EU goes full EV the world is. They are not making separate gas powered cars for ONLY the US market. And if you have a gas powered car gas is going to be so scarce it will easily cost $20+ in todays dollars.

Where I live they already limit classic vehicles to 5000 miles and say you can only drive to shows already. 30 years from now that is all gas powered vehicles, at least. 

bobzilla said:

Excepting the Sierra that's 17 years old and only gets 22 highway now (24 back when new and "pure" gas was easier to find), We haven't had a car average less than 35mpg highway since 2002. One of those was a $2000 accent that the wife averaged 41mpg out of for years on end. I'm still trying to figure out how long it would take to recoup that purchase with an EV. Of the rest the worst at highway was the wifes first auto Rio at around 33-34 and her second auto rio at 34/35.

For us, EV will just never make financial sense. Add in the lack of "soul" to me and it's a no-brainer.

Damn, I had tried to find an Accent real hard too- best I found was a manual wagon that they were asking $15K for on a 100K mile car! 

OK, this is what I"ve been saying for over a decade. Why aren't we using more locomotive style hybrids?

There's a lot. Off the back of my hand include:

1. Worse fire risks than Gas and EVs combined.
2. Small generators aren't as energy dense as we'd like to hope. The BMW i3 REX and i8 both had generator-based engines to help improve battery range but both could only do so by ~30 miles- and at that point, why have the complexity of it's own cooling, computer control and engine systems when you can just have more battery?
3. Bad Laws- the Volt connecting the engine directly to the output shaft in it's highest power mode meant per California law it couldn't be considered battery electric despite being EV in all other gears.
4. Similar weight to EVs.
5. Unique packaging constraints.
6. Not "New" or "Unique" to the nouveaux wealthy.

I think a lot of it is just, when you're talking additional costs you have to do something that shows it to be better than just "more battery" instead, since that is mechanically much easier to do. Mazda though is going towards it. 

With a gauge tool, Munro evaluated the panel gaps.

Panel gaps are the dumbest thing that Top Gear made a popular car talking point. Nobody cared about them until that show became big and people apparently already don't care about them again since Teslas are popular vehicles. 

I have large panel gaps on my R33 GTR. Literally nobody cares. All american classic cars like my 1970 Cutlass. Massive panel gaps. Nobody cares. 

bobzilla said:

Well, first off I'm shooting first. No lie. If we are at that point I don't want to live here anymore and I will take as many of those fascists with me as I can. Not like I got kids to worry about. They've probably already shot my dog and wife anyway so might as well go down blazing. Hopefully helps the next person that doesn't want to live under that type of rule to rise up, resist and rebel. 

Bro this is a car. You are constructing an imaginary action movie in your head about big gobernment forcing you at gunpoint to drive a different car.