STM317 said:Indy - Guy said:bobzilla said:Indy - Guy said:Tuna's case reinforces my own believe that house holds with 2+ vehicles are prime targets for the current expansion of EV's. ICE for long range or high capacity travels, and the EV for shorter in town trips
Plug In Hybrids are the prime target for single vehicle households.
and EV's are prime for single vehicle households you don't travel on long vacations.
Why wouldn't a PHEV that can run 40-50 miles on a charge without the engine work just as well? Eliminates the range anxiety and still offers the engineless drive to work.
Because the US government isn't incentivizing them. Only Pure Electric vehicles.
I own Four Prius Hybrids. If I could buy a PHEV (used) for equal money; That's what I'd be interested in buying.
PHEVs are eligible for Federal Tax credits like full EVs assuming they meet the requirements. So there is some incentive from the .gov to purchase them. There really aren't many options being made by OEMs though.
Darn it. You caught me. I tried pulling a Frenchy and just making up things that support my opinion. 
( That was supposed to be read in a sarcastic tone, I'm just kidding.)
Only 5 more to go....
In reply to tuna55 :
Yep. It's a good thread. I've read along, and it absolutely has had me looking at Bolts.
But part of your math is starting with buying a used vehicle, and every situation is unique.
The article several pages back about Toyota making the case for hybrids being a better choice than EVs was also compelling, and that is definitely a solution to the primary resistance to EVs (range anxiety)
In reply to SV reX :
Yes, I'd say Tuna55 as made the most compelling case for an EV.
Most of us own multiple vehicles so having an EV as a runabout would make sense.
SV reX said:In reply to tuna55 :
Yep. It's a good thread. I've read along, and it absolutely has had me looking at Bolts.
But part of your math is starting with buying a used vehicle, and every situation is unique.
The article several pages back about Toyota making the case for hybrids being a better choice than EVs was also compelling, and that is definitely a solution to the primary resistance to EVs (range anxiety)
I think a number of us said maybe 40-50 pages back that hybrids are a much better use case for most, but of course not all, people. You're not as reliant on a flaky and small, non-Tesla charging network, but you do still get some advantages of a battery powered vehicle. I can see it being a perfect vehicle for my fiance if we wanted to replace the Mazda 3. Wouldn't want to full electric. The lowered BRZ with a loud exhaust isn't exactly the best the highway cruiser.
I say flaky and small because recently I used an app that checked charging station locations and availability. And I'll be completely honest that I don't remember which one it was, here in OKC, one of the 25 largest cities in the country, there are very few charging stations and at the particular time I checked roughly 45% were broken/inoperable.
I think the hurdle with EV adoption is that many of the proponents are focused on people's needs, while largely ignoring people's wants. Tesla has been successful because they have been trying to cater to the want side of the equation, with the price tags to match. The Bolt and Leaf are more closely aligned with meeting people's needs. No doubt, they can do that for many people- but few people want them. And in their category- small cars, which itself doesn't usually fall on many buyers want list- is the lowest cost, most efficient class of cars. Sure they can save you money, but it's not very substantial amount for most people. The vehicles that people actually want are large trucks and SUV's, which have been a struggle for EV's to replace. I agree that economical EV's such as the Bolt can make a great second car for a commuter. But saying "EV's can replace ICE, as long as you have an ICE car too" doesn't really sound like replacement to me.
NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) said:https://www.thedrive.com/features/toyota-is-right-we-need-more-hybrid-cars-and-fewer-evs-heres-why
SVRex, Is this the article you're refering to ?
Tom1200 said:In reply to SV reX :
Yes, I'd say Tuna55 as made the most compelling case for an EV.
Most of us own multiple vehicles so having an EV as a runabout would make sense.
I must confess that I haven't followed along with Tuna's Bolt thread.
I prefer his truck thread instead.
Indy - Guy said:NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) said:https://www.thedrive.com/features/toyota-is-right-we-need-more-hybrid-cars-and-fewer-evs-heres-why
SVRex, Is this the article you're refering to ?
Yep
frenchyd said:Toyman.
Do you fill your car every day? You would with an EV when you get home.
leave in the morning with a full Tank".
Frequently, but not this week. I'm on vacation and have driven zero miles in the last week and a half.
After extensive study, an EV is not the vehicle for me. While they would get the job done 75% of the time the other 25% of the time would require owning another vehicle as well as transferring my stuff from one to the other when I needed to change. Not happening. Fuel could be $10/gal and I'd still have one daily and at this point, it wouldn't be an EV. They just aren't quite to the point that they are capable enough for me.
I've even done the math for using them for company vehicles and the savings = $0.00. And again we run into the problem of them not getting the job done about 25% of the time.
While I'm sure your darling boy Elon has a miracle EV that is oh-so-close to release that will do everything I want, they don't exist now and I live in the real world, not the pipe dream world most of your facts come from.
Someone mentioned Fast Charger placement is currently following the model of just a couple chargers located at a shopping destination, like a mall.
What's the ettiquette in these situations?
What if I pull up, desperately needing to charge, but there are no open chargers. I happen to notice one of the cars have completed their change cycle. Can I unplug it from that car and plug mine in?
Indy - Guy said:Tom1200 said:In reply to SV reX :
Yes, I'd say Tuna55 as made the most compelling case for an EV.
Most of us own multiple vehicles so having an EV as a runabout would make sense.
I must confess that I haven't followed along with Tuna's Bolt thread.
I prefer his truck thread instead.
Thanks dude! I couldn't afford the one without the other.
In reply to Indy - Guy :
"Fast charger" usually refers to Level 3 DC charging. It requires a lot of juice, but has the ability to add 80-100 miles or more in a matter of minutes under the right conditions. They cost a lot to implement, so they're the ones typically installed near highways, etc. Fast charging like this is not recommended for everyday use.
Most of the chargers that you see at shopping malls, hotels, and grocery stores are slower "Level 2" chargers. These will add 15-20 miles of range per hour. They normally just use a more common and inexpensive 240v power source.
Most public EV chargers that I've seen don't have cords that are long enough to allow what you're proposing, but some chargers will have a time limit, and if the vehicle is unnecessarily sitting in a charging bay the owner will be charged additional fees.
Paging page 96........
In reply to Tom1200 :
You're 10 posts off, well 9 now
In reply to STM317 :
Thanks for the perspective. Two follow up thoughts
Is there a feed back loop (perhaps a text message) to the owner at a level 2 if their car is "fully charged" or the charge is unsucessful
Is Tesla the only one who has level 3 chargers?
In reply to Steve_Jones :
Yes but I'm trying to move it along.
Tom1200 said:In reply to Steve_Jones :
Yes but I'm trying to move it along.
We seriously considered a Niro for the wife, I wanted the PHEV. But the price differential was just too high for the payback for us and the lack of inventory. I know we aren't getting the 60mpg the Niro would but the 35-40 (depending on who's driving) is pretty dang good for being $17k less than the only Niro for sale near us at the time.
stafford1500 said:Tom1200 said:In reply to Steve_Jones :
Yes but I'm trying to move it along.
always counter.
In reply to bobzilla :
My local Kia dealer has a bunch of Niros priced at $30815, and the plug-in hybrid is just under $42,000. I'll seriously consider a regular Niro at $31K when I finally give up on my MINI. Even though I don't put a lot of mileage on any one vehicle, I do like getting twice the mileage for my dollar. Over 90% of our driving could be handled by a pure electric vehicle and the hybrid Niro could be the long range vehicle. Until then I'll take my truck with its 450 mile range. I think EVs are inevitable and there will be a battery breakthrough to extend the range, we're just not quite there yet.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:In reply to bobzilla :
My local Kia dealer has a bunch of Niros priced at $30815, and the plug-in hybrid is just under $42,000. I'll seriously consider a regular Niro at $31K when I finally give up on my MINI. Even though I don't put a lot of mileage on any one vehicle, I do like getting twice the mileage for my dollar. Over 90% of our driving could be handled by a pure electric vehicle and the hybrid Niro could be the long range vehicle.
we were buying in December. There was a total of 1 Niro in a 150 mile range of us and it was $41k with a little bump from that dealer. The Seltos was $24k.
EDIT: just checked right now, Plugin niro there are 4 now, 1 at $37k, 3 at $41+k with the range set at 100+ miles.
In reply to bobzilla :
I wish Kia would build hybrid Souls or Seltos. I have a personal preference for smaller cars and the Soul is "right-sized" for me. Haven't looked at a Seltos, but I was following after you bought yours. Hyundai making a hybrid Venue or Kona would be good ,too.
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