I want to go fast.

So here is the life story:

Engineering student currently. I autox/solo1/hillclimb my daily driver, a 2008 Civic Si sedan. I dont have the money to be competitive (have managed to win a couple small trophies and some $ regionally) so I try to make her a jack of all trades and get as much seat time as possible. She is my daily driver during the summer because I cannot afford insurance/gas to drive her and race while I am going to school. Basically, I buy anything I can get away with used (ie. 2 year old hoosiers on 22lb motegi wheels) and the safety/important stuff I buy new. The engine, suspension and everything except safety gear is stock, in fact because of the rollbar she is heavier than stock.

Frankly, I am so tired of beating on my poor street car. Ask me 4 years ago and I would have told you that a do it all car is the coolest thing ever. It comes up so often, even on this board: "I want a fun, reliable, rwd, sports car that I can also drive in anger and take to the track a couple times a year". I guess its a bit less casual than that for me, so maybe thats why im tired of it. And I never understood why all the race car drivers drive normal street cars, that are usually, mostly of not completely stock. But now that I have started to swim in the deep end, I get it. Sure, I drive change my pads the night before, drive my baby to the track, ride her at redline while bouncing off curbing so hard that I have 3 wheels in the air, and my friends working 2 turns back hear me land. But then, the suspension does not feel fresh anymore, the brake pedal doesnt come back until the next day and the fixed bucket is starting to wear the back out. A dedicated race car is pretty much the only way to go, but its not an option at this point in my life. Ultimately the trophies mean nothing to me, I do this for the love and personal self fulfillment. I will battle for second last as hard as I would for first. I have had 3 years of various racing now, started with autox and progressed to hillclimbs. I can usually outdrive the owner of a car in autox except the really fast regional guys. However, I am not nearly pleased with what I can do and I want to improve, always learning right?

So I went go karting witha friend...and then it dawned on me. Where do all the F1 greats start? Karting. I cant afford to be competitive, but surely the consumables and seat time is much cheaper in the kart...probably a better platform to train in anyways right? My biggest interest is to improve my driving anyway, that is all I really care about. This is not a career for me, I love it too much to make it a job.

So then I made the next big mistake that everyone on this board makes...I went on the local craigslist.

Turns out a full fledged sorted race kart (125cc, non-shifter) can be had for 2-3k$ with spares. Thats what a new set of wheels and hoosiers would run me. I have the 3 layer suit, and all the safety gear already. I saw a picture in a magazine of a guy who had his secured on the roof, Im sure my car would appreciate the break and would be willing to lug the kart to the track.

So I did some research, I want a TAG, 125cc, Rotax would be nice but not imperative. So, what do you boys think? I know its stupid expensive at the top of the field but I am not even sure I would want to race it too much, maybe a couple a year but mostly just seat time, seat time, seat time and maybe some instruction. If I do race, winning is not a priority until I can get the best equipment to see how I truly stack up against the fast guys. I am pretty interested in playing with lines, data acquisition and setup to learn to extract 110% out of myself the the given equipment I have. I know the talent pool is generally pretty deep in karting too, which is something I would love.

Any advice from someone who is on or has been down this path? I want to become the best I can and I feel like with the little $ I do make this summer, this would be the best investment. Thanks to the brave souls who read the whole damn book ;)

I'd say go for it. I've been thinking about it lately too. My suggestion would be to get a small utility trailer to tow behind your car. This would save your back from lifting the cart on/off the roof of the Civic.

In reply to rwdsport:

Why don't you find out what karts can be used in autoX and then you can have some other fun events to participate in during the year.

The last kart race I went to had some very rough drivers participating. They caused some pretty fierce crashes by just overdriving. Be sure to get all the appropriate body armor for wheel to wheel kart racing. I think you're on the right path especially if you have a racing venue not too far from where you live. Get online and start doing a thorough search for what they're going for. Be patient, I'm sure there are some great deals available. One of the guys I met @ that race offered to sell me his enclosed trailer, both of his chassis, and all his spares and equipment for $3K and I'm sure he would have taken an offer.

Karting is a LOT of fun. I try to make it out to NJMP a couple of times a year. I am no where even near ready to take a shifter kart out

F125 onboard

At our central Florida autocrosses, these are the fastest things out there. Even Per has a tough time beating them in his LeGrand. You have to have the reaction time of a hummingbird, however, to drive them effectively. Kidney belts highly recommended on a bumpy track.

I'll just put out there that a shifter kart is a humbling way to start racing. They are so fast and such small changes will make you embarrassingly slow in a field of seasoned racers that it would be much better to get in a rotax spec kart and hone a little first. It is like deciding you want to go open wheeled racing and starting in an Indy car.

For $2-$3k it seems like you could still get/ build a dedicated racecar.

you could.. but the running costs would not be as small

jstein77 wrote: F125 onboard At our central Florida autocrosses, these are the fastest things out there. Even Per has a tough time beating them in his LeGrand (but he's beaten them the last few events by multiple seconds). You have to have the reaction time of a hummingbird, however, to drive them effectively. Kidney belts highly recommended on a bumpy track.

Fixed

http://www.scca.com/documents/resultfiles/Dixie%20results4.pdf

93EXCivic wrote: For $2-$3k it seems like you could still get/ build a dedicated racecar.

Yes, probably. But it would likely have limited venues for competition, it would be expensive in consumables, and it would require space and a tow vehicle.

OTOH, his existing Civic would tow a small enclosed trailer, and the trailer would double as storage space/support shop for a kart when he wasn't using it. All he would need is a small parking space, which is findable/rentable. The kart would be cheap(ish) on tires, fuel, etc. too.

The SCCA Philly region has a number of F125 karters, and they look like they have a blast at our autocrosses.

jstein77 wrote: F125 onboard At our central Florida autocrosses, these are the fastest things out there. Even Per has a tough time beating them in his LeGrand. You have to have the reaction time of a hummingbird, however, to drive them effectively. Kidney belts highly recommended on a bumpy track.

Is it bad that I want to throw a red shell at him?

The F125s are clearly the cheapest in the speed vs $$ ratio. Most of the other 'budget' classes like CM and FM take closer to 10k to get a competitive package. There's a competitive CM Reynard in Chicago for sale now--just under 9k.

Per

jstein77 wrote: F125 onboard At our central Florida autocrosses, these are the fastest things out there. Even Per has a tough time beating them in his LeGrand (but he's beaten them the last few events by multiple seconds). You have to have the reaction time of a hummingbird, however, to drive them effectively. Kidney belts highly recommended on a bumpy track. Fixed

I apologize, Per. I've only been to one event so far this year so I haven't seen you run yet. I was going by last year's results in which you weren't always able to get past them. I know you've put a lot of improvements into the LeGrand, as well as more seat time. 2010 Results

I WILL be going to more events this year, starting with the July 24th event in Deland. Hopefully will see you then.

No problem--just having fun. I'll be at Deland as well--actually my first event since that Dixie Tour.

New babies will do that to you!

Karts rawk, you can't beat them. But they will beat you; a seat that fits properly is absolutely necessary. I get my tires from the dumpster and fix it myself so costs are very reasonable. But I'm not racing; throw-away tires costs me 2-4 seconds a lap. They do take up more space than you expect. Also, karts are not fire-and-forget like a modern fuel-injected car. I'm constantly screwing around with my jets and such. Single-speed karts require a lot of tuning of the clutch, I'm told.

David

Thanks for all the replies guys! Truly appreciate it.

I know that generally you can find a racecar for 3k in the US, but locally that is impossible for me. The closest and lowest I have seen over the last two years is a SHO for 3800$, that car still needs a seat and belts and something I am not interested in. We had a gorgeous BRE GT2 280z with a 300hp race motor just sell for 9k, believe me when I say I was even considering taking a loan out to get that car. Despite the fact that I work 4 months out of the year. Nor do I have a trailer...tow car or space haha.

However, I suspect I could not come up with the funds for consumables and entry fees and all. The only reason I managed to attend my first hillclimb is because I won a 1500$ scholarship from Toyo tires.

I am not interested in starting out in a shifter, this would be a single speed. I am basically looking for more bang for my buck, I want more quality and quantity driver development for the same given money I would spend tracking my car.

The small utility trailer is actually a very good idea, the girlfriend already said her pathfinder is off limits when I started daydreaming to her.

PS: Shifter karts look insane, that is always an option in the future. But have you guys heard of the 50hp rotary ones, the ones that make a shifter karts moving slaloms at tracks. I is scuuured

rwdsport wrote: I am not interested in starting out in a shifter, this would be a single speed. I am basically looking for more bang for my buck, I want more quality and quantity driver development for the same given money I would spend tracking my car.

In that case google 'Rotax Max Challenge' and see if they run near you. They have pretty big fields here in the NE. I considered running it with my son - still am - but I haven't quite got around to the part where we sell off his cadet karting stuff and go buy 2 of everything.

Harbor Freight sells trailers for as low as $199.

That plus some plywood and a storage box would not put much strain on a Civic.

FWIW, at the cart track nearby (BeaverRun) I have seen custom motorhomes with matching, custom 18' enclosed trailers dedicated to serious weekend carting. (Imagine 2 fully-prepped carts, spare engines, piles of wheels, complete Snap-On toolkits, a work area, a kitchen, etc) So you might not be competitive, but then, you might be the next Schumacher.

My wife and I have been beating around the idea of getting a kart. Some good info here.

The perfect beginner kart engine finally showed up in New England last year.

Get a Briggs and Stratton World Formula. It will make 14 horsepower, and a really good driver with one will be able to do battle with the newbies in TaG.

Buy good, used motorcycle gear, it offers a lot more protection than the kart-specific stuff. Buy a Leatt or Valhalla360 brace from Roger at Prospeed (508 399 5377) and save your neck.

The Yamaha KT100 might finally be dying; I won't miss it but I can see why many would. It is a lot more finicky than the Briggs, needs to be blueprinted to be competitive even locally, and costs a little more to run. It's also been the backbone of the sport for thirty-five years and a lot of people still run them. If you have a large and knowledgeable Yamaha class go for it.

Any chassis post 2003 is going to be good. I like Margays; they're American and that means the parts cost half as much as anyone else's. Buying the second or third place kart as soon as it gets off the scales in the feature is the best way to go about it.

You will improve faster if you race than if you just do practice days.

Finger in the air numbers, any chassis/tire combo will cost around $100 per race day. A World Formula will cost $50-$100 more per race day; a Rotax Max around $200, a TaG around $250, a Honda Spec Moto around $150, and an ICC around $200. This includes everything but travel for a solid midpack operation.

I'm empathetic, so I think that If you fit in a kart, go for it. I feel ya on the difficulty of striking a balance in a do-it-all car, but the answer is the one we don't want to admit to: compromise. Compromise reliability for speed, compromise comfort for safety, compromise speed for livability, compromise safety for sanctioning body requirements (i.e. a cage in a street car), compromise drivability for handling, etc. It's all a compromise one way or the other which tends to leave a bit of distaste in our mouths. I think choosing to go karting is one of the more reasonable compromises you can make, but remember, you can't kart a rally-x. :(

Stuff I need to sell: shifter kart turbo miata v8 miata ranchero

these folks on the board) have some experience . . . .

darkbuddha wrote: but remember, you can't kart a rally-x. :(

Challenge accepted.

Taiden wrote:

darkbuddha wrote: but remember, you can't kart a rally-x. :(

Challenge accepted.

I want video when it happens.