I'm over here like....
And you are all like.....
I'm over here like....
And you are all like.....
I'm not sure where I fall on the spectrum, but my R53 CooperS and my supercharged NB are just where I have enough power. With a 15% smaller pulley the MINI is making 175ish, I would think and the Miata is around the same . For me that's a fun level in relatively light cars. I'll let you know about twice that power to weight if I ever finish my Challenge car.
Yeah, I'm gonna go with fast car fast on this one as well. My miata with 250whp is much more fun than it was with 115whp.
A car that handles really well versus anything else.
It doesn't matter if you have to wring it out to do 45 or if you just burble along barely above idle letting the torque take care of things. Feeling the Gs is all that matters.
I came here to say slow car fast but I can’t really be sure as I’ve never really owned a fast car. Crossfire corvette wasn’t fast, turbo beetle would do a wheelie but wouldn’t break 15s in 1/4. Camry had near 300hp but BORING.
Id say I’m with Seth on this. Engaging is what I’m after. My current dd is not a cornering machine and with 88bhp is certainly not fast, but it is a hoot to drive. The beetle was fun too, handling was terrifying, braking was like doing leg day at every stop, and the engine was worthless below 3700, but it was such a treat. Though maybe I’m just a masochist.
I did have to chuckle at my one real foray into a "handling" car; an 87 E30 cabrio that was set up well for autocross. I remember doing some of what I call "emergency maneuvers" that I thought would kill me, but for the car it was business as usual.
I fully admit to being a lead-sled gearhead. I like feeling G's on the side bolsters, but 90% of my experience is feeling it on the backrest. Having a car that can do both is fantastic, but I admit to not having any more than hooning experience. Not a trained racer.
Where I AM a little bit jealous is that most of you could beat me with a stock NA on a road course with me in a 550-hp LeMans. I have driven 1200-hp, front-wheel-lifting, wrinkle-walled monsters and I can not die doing it. Going around a corner in an 115-hp Miata is what would probably kill me faster.
I think the point is, I know how to use shear power and not die. Some people know how to pick a line and push the corners hard. What I want to do someday is BOTH. It's one of the reasons I'm considering a Schwartz chassis for under the LeMans.
I just bought a base 981 Boxster. Driving it on the street I am still confused why 4/5ths of Rennlisters' claim an S is required. I think it is a combo of great (predictable) handling and enough power that make a car fun. However, the drop top and engine wail really help add to the experience.
(I sold my modded E36 325 manual 4 years ago and have been driving a N/A Volvo V70 auto every since so my input may be tainted by years of malaise. My wife claimed the MDX I bought :( )
I've never owned a fast car. Maybe I need one.
Slow car driven fast, yeah,OK, whatever.
Fast Car == Phun. Like that time on the way to work in the Esprit. Slow car ahead on a 2 lane road. Sporty Acura something (I don't know honduhs) pulls inbetween me and the slow car. 3 of us in a row. Road goes to a straight part with passing allowed. Acura pulls to passing lane and nails it. I pull right on his ass. He gets around slow poke giving it all he had and pulls back into the right lane. I put my foot down and pass him like he's standing still, pull in front of him and take the corner. That's what a fast car can do.
I'd have to say I'm with Curtis on this.
I sold my Mini, because it just wasn't enjoyable anymore. Sure, it could make a U-turn at 40mph, but that was about as fast as it could go...
Currently, i just have a land barge of a GMT800 6.0 Yukon, and while it won't win an autocross, it tickles me when I put the spurs to it. I'm tempted to get sloppy with it, for more giggles.
I am very impressed with the GMT800 6.0 trucks/suvs. My best friend's mom has a 425k mile YukonXL Denali. It still feels fast. It's a "push from an invisible hand" sort of fast. We used to play a game of "who can keep the fuel economy gauge at 0 for the longest." Accelerating from a stop to highway speeds while towing wins that game.
In the context of driving on the street I’ve discovered that I enjoy a car with good low end torque. The old 350 in my wagon isn’t fast but it never has to work hard to make me smile when I give it a kick.
For the same reason, the 2.4 swap in the Neon is more fun to drive to work than the B18 swapped Civic was.
In reply to therieldeal :
A boosted BP making in the 240hp range (limited by efforts to preserve the G series transmission) in a sub 2300lb 323 is quite fun. It's still tire limited to be slow car fast.
Gotta go with slow car fast. Probably influenced by my younger, formative years when cars, parts, & insurance were critical to the budget. I've only had 3 cars that I would define as "fast" and their limits were far beyond prudent for driving on the street. Driving a POS slow car at (and occasionally beyond) it's limits is far more exciting and less likely to result in tickets, loss of license, or jail time...
Having just acquired a luxury 4 door German sedan that will get to 60 in a shade under 4 seconds and comfortably cruse around at the speed limit I am firmly in the fast (comfortable) car camp. Just because you have the power does not mean you have to use it. In fact 99.9 percent of my driving is at 1/8 throttal or less. 1/4 throttle will get you going briskly. Tip in more than that and things get bonkers really quickly. Oh and then there is sport mode and you can add in flappy paddle shifting if you want.
The car is so much more fun than the other underpowered “toys” I have. This car is not a toy. It will kill you if you are stupid. There is a kind of respect you have to have for a car like this that my other cars just don’t have.
In short if you poke the bear you better have an exit strategy or things can go bad in a big hurry.
dean1484 said:Just because you have the power does not mean you have to use it.
You sir have "no mas pantalones!!!" Like in the commercial... :)
Miatas are fun. While not being fast in the grand scheme, you step into a FD that does everything the same only twice as well, it instantly becomes a no contest.
I’ve had one fast car. 94 Mustang Cobra. Ok, it was considered relatively fast back then and more power than what I had driven up to that point. Whenever I felt the urge to tromp on it I would instantly look for unwanted attention. It also attracted semi performance cars to egg you on to the point of Irritation when all you want to do is run into HD.
With a slow car I don’t have that issue. Just floor it for a fun corner and continue on.
I remember driving my Mazda 323 home from work. Country curvy road. Jeep Cherokee 10 miles under in the rain. Passed him using momentum in a short straight. Sped up and tailed my ask through some mild corners until I came to 90 degree corner. I flew through perfectly and slowed down before the next turn just to watch him make a 360 and probably soiled himself. I would not have lmao if I was in the mustang on that day!
Fast car - slow car fast is overrated. With a slow car, I can only enjoy twisties. With a fast car, I can enjoy carving corners at higher speeds and long straightaways aren't a complete chore. In addition, I don't have to feel like I'm pushing hard everytime I'm trying to keep up with traffic nor do I have to fight idiots who refuse to get out of the fast lane and choose to start accelerating only when I'm going around.
rustybugkiller said:I’ve had one fast car. 94 Mustang Cobra. Ok, it was considered relatively fast back then and more power than what I had driven up to that point.
That's a good point too. The definition of what is "fast" and "slow" has changed dramatically in the past 20 years or so. Just this weekend, I went and picked up a '94 Mustang GT that my son and I will use as a project car. It runs and drives really well. My mind says "Oooh, Mustang GT, fast car". In its' day, it was. But by modern standards, not so much. According to the car magazines, it had a 0-60 time of 6.9 seconds. That's still respectably quick, but many modern family sedans would keep pace or blow it away. I took the Mustang out for a test run and really enjoyed driving it. It pulls hard, sounds wonderful, but by todays measure it's not fast. Good news is that's nothing a few bolt on parts can't fix...
For the sake of this discussion, I assumed that "fast" could mean many things. To me, "fast" means 0-60 but I can also fully understand if someone's idea of fast is a corner-carver regardless of power. Like I said, I could have a ton of hp in a marshmallow lead sled and you could beat me with a 5hp go kart on a tight track.
Fast 1: a 5hp go kart that is fast because you don't have to let up in the corners
Fast 2: a 600 hp drag car that can't corner to save its life
Fast 3: a 600 hp car that handles and you have to use all the skills.
On the topic of what "fast" means now vs. then, my 96 Impala SS was nearly a 4 door corvette back in the day. Now, I could get stomped by a 2012 Camry. (that actually happened, and I don't think the Camry was even trying)
I'm really shooting to make the LeMans a "Fast 3". I'd love to hone my cornering skills.
dean1484 said:Having just acquired a luxury 4 door German sedan that will get to 60 in a shade under 4 seconds and comfortably cruse around at the speed limit I am firmly in the fast (comfortable) car camp. Just because you have the power does not mean you have to use it. In fact 99.9 percent of my driving is at 1/8 throttal or less. 1/4 throttle will get you going briskly. Tip in more than that and things get bonkers really quickly. Oh and then there is sport mode and you can add in flappy paddle shifting if you want.
The car is so much more fun than the other underpowered “toys” I have. This car is not a toy. It will kill you if you are stupid. There is a kind of respect you have to have for a car like this that my other cars just don’t have.
In short if you poke the bear you better have an exit strategy or things can go bad in a big hurry.
It won't kill you if you are stupid, unless you are really trying hard to be dead.
captdownshift said:In reply to therieldeal :
A boosted BP making in the 240hp range (limited by efforts to preserve the G series transmission) in a sub 2300lb 323 is quite fun. It's still tire limited to be slow car fast.
I’m right with you there. The black escort GT in my avatar picture is making mid-200s at “low boost” (where I autocross it) and mid-300s at “full boost” (no more G series to worry about, but wayyyyyy tire limited). However, I would not want to try and drive it year-round in New England with either tune.
In reply to therieldeal :
E153 or PAR box?
I've thought long and hard on this subject. The conclusion is that my preferences are limited entirely by budget. The train of thought is as follows:
1) I want to be on the track. No other manner of driving scratches the itch for me, and I really couldn't care less about whether my daily driver is "fast".
2) The road to happiness is to maximize my track time and choose the tool that permits me to do that.
3) The costs to properly track a car go up exponentially when you get a "fast" car. The cost to buy a ZL1 Camaro is very reasonable for what it is; however, the costs of tires, brake pads, proper safety gear, track insurance, etc. are maybe 5x what I'm used to with my Miata.
4) Assuming a fixed discretionary budget for toys and hobbies, the fast car means less track time, and ultimately less happiness.
Sometimes I fantasize about the ZL1. But sometimes I also fantasize about a dedicated track weapon like a Formula Ford. Cars like that can be fast, fun and cheap.
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