I'm about to do something I wasn't (TDI content)

I guess if I get a Leaf, Bryce and I could define from scratch what the local Leaf scene is like.

Unless he's already done that.

I'm thinking tweed, very silly socks, and ball-and-stick molecular models hung from the tow hook...

I just add my bit of TDI experience. I purchased a new 2012 TDI 6 speed Jetta sedan less then a week ago. It was the last 2012 in the Chicago area. I had looked at some used 2010-2012's and found that the used prices were too close to a new one when considering the miles on these cars, from 40-70K. After a bit of searching I found this car, a base TDI with manual trans.

On my first fill up I got 47 MPG with 90% highway driving. I hope to hit 50 mpg once it's broken in and then I'll take some long trips, which I have time for now that I'm retired.

Thanks! Every bit of info helps...

I've talked about it at length here in the past. We've got a '09 Jetta TDI, have had it since new. Came with 30K miles of free dealer service, since then I've done all but the 40K mile DSG (transmission) service, and mount/balance a set of tires myself.

We will be due for our 70K mile oil change this weekend, and it has had it's very first and only issue. The CEL came on last week, for a faulty cylinder pressure sensor, which is built into the glow plug, expensive at $150 each, but appears to be a simple repair. I intend to tackle the oil change and glow plug replacement this weekend.

I average in the range of 39-42 MPG, but I tend to treat each stop light like a drag tree. It's SWMBO's car, her behind the wheel and she averages 43 mpg on her mostly congested interstate work commute.

Here's a picture of the on board MPG reading, was our best for a long time, we beat it a couple months ago on the move from OH to AR we got 53.7 mpg.

• Lee

Nice! That's a little over double what we tend to get on the hwy in the WRX...

bigdaddylee82 wrote: I've talked about it at length here in the past. We've got a '09 Jetta TDI, have had it since new. Came with 30K miles of free dealer service, since then I've done all but the 40K mile DSG (transmission) service, and mount/balance a set of tires myself....

Give us an idea of how entertaining (or not) the TDI DSG combo is to drive. I've had 1.8T powered cars before (stock and modded) and driven a TDI Cup. The Cup seemed pretty boring. Is the newer TDI something I can drive without losing my mind until I can buy another fun car? I'm not against modding.

Well here's an odd twist; at least through my CU's service, due to the locations of cars with specific options we want, if we go with the TDI, the DSG would be about $160 cheaper than the manual (and available in red, much as I hate to let that influence me).

An unrelated twist: If we do go with the Leaf, it's looking more like we'll assume we're going to get a road trip wagon. Which means I get to indulge my older-Volvo/BMW/Mercedes desires, within the realm of stuff that can be made solid enough that both halves of the house will trust them for road trips (and really won't let us down lest this be the last experiment like that )

I wonder for how little I could build a really clean Volvo 740-V8?

ransom wrote: I wonder for how little I could build a really clean Volvo 740-V8?

For very, very little. If you go automatic, it would probably be the cheapest.

In reply to clutchsmoke:

I don't think I can cope with that... But if the rest of the build is cheap enough, I'd go out of my way for it...

Today was the day! We braced ourselves, and headed out to drive the TDI and Leaf back to back.

By yesterday, I had worked myself into a greater enthusiasm for the extent to which the Leaf seems like The Right Tool for people who drive 90-95% in town, in a place with great EV infrastructure. Moreover, I was having fun with the idea of building my ideal road-trip wagon.

In the meantime, my girlfriend had come to terms with the idea that she was pretty excited about the TDI, and was going to have a hard time liking anything else as much.

Mercifully, instead of trekking all over Hell's Half Acre, there turned out to be a Nissan dealership next door to the VW place.

We drove the TDI. It was still really, really nice. We liked the DSG, and decided we could do that kind of auto. Then we went next door to the Nissan place, talked to a guy who was much more knowledgeable about the Leaf than the junior sales minion I'd talked to at the other place a week earlier, and took a slightly more thorough test drive. Both of us were converted.

We're getting a Leaf. Mercifully, we set out today having decided that we wouldn't do anything today, and we really didn't have time to wade into the larger operation of details on the Leaf lease or whether to trade in the WRX. So we haven't acted yet, but basically we're going to figure out which model and options, and move on whatever we decide.

I'm very excited.

And I'm hoping Bryce will join me in a Leaf Challenge at next season's autocrosses And anybody else in the Portland area! Weren't you looking at one, Javelin? It's almost too bad the lease makes so much sense. Apparently there are nifty parts in development...

Look for probable separate threads for Leaf Choices, and the Road Trip Car Search and/or Build...

In reply to bluesideup:

If you've driven a TDI Cup (assuming you mean the TDI Cup Street Edition) then you've driven the latest TDI/DSG combo.

If you're talking about the VW TDI Cup race series, then the same holds true, most/all of the TDI Cup cars were '09 DSG equipped cars.

So it sounds like you've driven the CEBA/CJAA 2.0l TDI equipped with the DSG already.

I don't find it boring, it's not going to replace the GRM staple Miata for a nimble fun to toss about car. However, if you're shopping high MPGs, commuter that can seat 5, and has TORQUE then I don't think it can be beat.

I prefer the Mk5 Jetta (VAG A5) cars over the new Mk6 Jetta. My next car will either be a '10 Cup edition, or a Homebrew version of a '09 or '10 GTD sedan. Unless of course, I find a ridiculously good deal on a 335d.

• Lee

However, if you're shopping high MPGs, commuter that can seat 5, and has TORQUE then I don't think it can be beat.

Seems like you have to add "long ranged" to that, otherwise a Leaf does all that. Im pretty sure a Leaf feels as strong as a TDI at low speeds. Probably not at 50+.

In reply to Vigo:

Excellent summary. The Leaf is quite eager at around-town speeds. As the speeds come up, you do run into the fairly low peak power.

And it's always in the right gear

I'm admittedly biased, the Leaf doesn't do anything for me. Until 2 months ago I had been a Nissan service advisor for 2 years. I get it, seems good on paper, but most of the folks I knew with them all had "stories." Stopping to charge first place they could, coasting into their drive way, etc. If you can truly use it solely around town, and have another long distance vehicle like Ransom is planning it'd probably be tolerable.

One of the other service advisors did a Leaf lease, trickle charged (110v) at home and used one of the 240V charging stations at work. He had about a 70 mile round trip commute, his math showed the lease payment & extra insurance was a wash for what he was paying driving his rusty gas guzzling Explorer. In his mind he paid the same money but got to drive a new vehicle, which I guess made sense, but he still needed the Explorer for anything much over 100 miles.

Even he coasted home a time or two, but he did eventually discover there was an issue with the on board charger. Warranty covered it, but it was about a 3 week ordeal.

If it works for you, and you like it more power to ya.

Spring for a 240v or better charging station. If you trickle charge on 110v try and make sure you're using a dedicated outlet, not sharing a circuit with the microwave, fridge, toaster oven, etc. and use whatever size extension cord the manual calls for, not a lamp cord.

Cold weather is going to limit you're range quite a bit, so keep that in mind too.

• Lee

I have about 300 miles on my Leaf SV so far. I do love it as a commuter appliance, and it actually can be quite fun to drive around. Here are some quick insights:

The range is quite variable. I get great range around town, about 100 miles per charge, but pretty poor on freeways, probably about 60 miles at 75 mph.

The nav system is not awesome. It works, and it is nice to be able to see where chargers might be, but not all are displayed, and even when they are it is only a rough idea of where you MIGHT be able to find a small poorly marked plug.

CARWINGS does not have a whole lot of great functionality.

The SV does not come standard with quick charge, or the rear view camera, which is quite nice.

The S is not available with the decent heater, but quick charge is an option, giving you fast charging capability and upgrading the S to the quicker 6.6 base charger.

If winters are not bad, I would go with the S model with QC. If you need the better heater, I would probably spring for the Top of line SL.

ransom wrote: And I'm hoping Bryce will join me in a Leaf Challenge at next season's autocrosses...

I hope to attend many autocrosses next year in an EV, but not my wife's Leaf. I'll be in my Spark EV hopefully, if I can find a way to get it classed. Maybe you can talk Jessica into bringing her Leaf.

Bryce

I think it's funny that there is a 400lb ft spec for the Spark EV floating around. If that were true it would actually make the car harder to sell. I've had a 350 lb ft ~2300lb car and normal people wouldnt get back in it after the first time.

Vigo wrote: I think it's funny that there is a 400lb ft spec for the Spark EV floating around. If that were true it would actually make the car harder to sell. I've had a 350 lb ft ~2300lb car and normal people wouldnt get back in it after the first time.

This.

SWMBO hates riding in my 2600lb daily driver. And refuses to drive it. I gave my boss a ride in it last year right after i prepped it for $2012, and after a quick 3rd gear pull, i got nothing but NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

Yeah, the pervasive confusion over the relationship of torque and power is bad enough without the manufacturers' marketing departments playing fast and loose in the name of making EVs sexy. Torque is irrelevant except to note an engine's power at a particular speed.

The reality is that the Leaf isn't very powerful, and the thrust is quite modest by the time you're reaching freeway speed, but the instant availability of torque at urban speeds makes the car effectively quite quick in normal driving. There's no downshift, no need for revs, no spooling a turbo... It's closer to the effortless acceleration of a big V8 than the driving experience of a small-displacement economy car engine; it's just that it it tapers with speed.

EDIT: Yep, I immediately turned around after the opening grouse and said "instant availability of torque" instead of "instant availability of power". I put it to you that in the learned halls of GRM we can play a little loose when using the terms subjectively

By the way, check with Nissan's VPP plan. You may be one of Nissan's "corpororate partners" and not know it. If so, screw the concierge, after a few E-mails and the VPP number I had my lease for roughly $1000 less over the 24 months and I was in and out of the dealership in about 45 minutes INCLUDING the test drive.

In reply to tuna55:

Thanks for the heads-up! Unfortunately, my company's not affiliated (checked Nissan's spreadsheet and my own company's intranet; we've got deals with other companies, but not Nissan).

The overview lease as stated on the Nissan USA site is pretty compelling. Anybody without a VPP done significantly better?

Strangely, when it came to lease numbers, my credit union's concierge service came out significantly worse (though there were a couple of mitigating factors; e.g. she defaulted to zero down, which we don't need if it's going to make a big difference in overall cost). Wonder whether Nissan's going to be the best deal because they're doing a bit of additional subsidizing via finance to get more market share of the growing EV market and get more infrastructure demand rolling...

Go here to compare lease deals:

http://mynissanleaf.com/

Mine was $243 per month, $0 down, $185 disp fee for a base model S at 24 months. With VPP, the 36 month was much higher per month.

EDIT, fixed disp fee

In reply to tuna55:

Thank you!

Yeah, the pervasive confusion over the relationship of torque and power is bad enough without the manufacturers' marketing departments playing fast and loose in the name of making EVs sexy.

Well, i agree with your point as far as it goes, but you left out gearing.

The 400lb ft number is technically true but it's still heavily misleading because by GM's own statements the Spark EV's 3.18:1 gear reduction is 'less than half' of other EVs on the market. So then, by extension you could 'more than double' the ~207 lb ft from a Leaf motor and end up with a bigger number than the Spark has.

In reply to Vigo:

Good grief.

Next step is pickups being advertised on "axle torque" figures calculated in low range on the transfer case...