I'm all for better highways...

alfadriver wrote: Good lord, you guys sure read a lot into a single line. Recall, the biggest argument about unintended acceleration is that the driver hit the gas when they intended to hit the brake. The way I read this, the intention is that the placement of the pedals reduces this risk. Not sure how that translates into removing old cars from the road. And I also know that even with the recent change in ETC code where the throttle closes when your foot is on the brake pedal (regardless), most will STILL allow you to heel and toe so that you can match revs. People have been talking about removing cars from the roads for decades- for various reasons. Yet they still have not. The best effort has been a cash for clunkers that didn't to that much to the use car market. Lighten up.

Ayup. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant portion of the bill involved pedal-to-floor-mat interference.

Alan Cesar wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Good lord, you guys sure read a lot into a single line. Recall, the biggest argument about unintended acceleration is that the driver hit the gas when they intended to hit the brake. The way I read this, the intention is that the placement of the pedals reduces this risk. Not sure how that translates into removing old cars from the road. And I also know that even with the recent change in ETC code where the throttle closes when your foot is on the brake pedal (regardless), most will STILL allow you to heel and toe so that you can match revs. People have been talking about removing cars from the roads for decades- for various reasons. Yet they still have not. The best effort has been a cash for clunkers that didn't to that much to the use car market. Lighten up.

Ayup. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant portion of the bill involved pedal-to-floor-mat interference.

And there needs to be a regulation for either of these why?

Really? What happened to personal responsibility?

I suppose in our litigation happy society, the last question is somewhat rhetorical, but still.

It's pathetic that so much is regulated. It adds unnecessary cost, weight, etc... Sad.

What's next, government regulated and standardized lawn mower controls? Game console controls?

It's an asinine thing for the guberment to be involved with in the first place, and frankly it's insulting. How about we actually have DRIVER TRAINING instead!!?!?!?

Explain why it's bad that someone would come up with guidelines for pedal placement to reduce the risk of applying the wrong pedal?

How it's insulting that if a manufacturer uses push button start that there's a requirement that the driver is able to turn the car off in an emergency situation?

How eithier makes the car heavier, more complex, or so expensive?

Fun to be anti government, I guess. But I don't get why this would be that bad.

More than once. In fact, 3 times in 3 different cars. No system is foolproof, but I'll betcha there's more failsafe things built into an average new car with drive-by-wire than the old spring-return throttle cable.

Happened to me repeatedly. It bothered me so little that i didnt even REALLY fix it. The failsafe in that car was the CLUTCH PEDAL and the BRAKE PEDAL.and the SWITCH THAT TURNS THE MOTOR OFF. So even with the failure prone throttle cable i still had triple-redundant (double?) safety mechanisms (which still seem to be prevalent i might add), and that car was OLD!

Javelin wrote: What's next, government regulated and standardized lawn mower controls?

They have them. my lawnmower had a "saftey bar" that when released would cut the engine... until I put a ziptie I could slip over it

1988RedT2 wrote: They need to leave the bloody roads alone. If I encounter yet another poorly marked impromptu road project that forces me to make a detour and adds painful minutes to my travels, I'll scream. Half the time it looks as if they're digging up old curbing and replacing it with new curbing. I fail to see how this is important. It's a waste of taxpayer dollars in the name of economic stimulus. Not that there's anything surprising about that.

And you live in... Nirvana?

Our infrastructure has been crumbling for 30 years. The fix is long overdue.

I've had it up to here with all the car legislation. Sure, make all of it available to anyone who wants to buy it. Buy a car with guard rails wrapped all the way around it and 1700 air bags for all I care. That's all great stuff. But it's absolutely absurd to legislate all the "safety" crap they've legislated into cars in the same country that allows legal lane splitting on a motorcycle.

Man, when are the "smaller government" folks going to stop talking about gays and get to cars? I want to buy a 1700 lb. car with 80 HP that gets 60 MPG. It's exactly what this country needs, and it would be illegal because it's not safe. But I can buy a Harley and ride it with no helmet. Aggravating.

Whew. Sorry 'bout that. Thanks for listening. We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast.

CGLockRacer wrote: It would also require new regulations on pedal placement, pushbutton ignition and electronic performance issues.

new mantra: "We need to keep driving old cars"

before you all blow a vein in your heads, just remember that there are few, if any, automotive regulations out there that can't be un-done by 99% of the people on this board.

I'm quite certain people on here are running with altered (or absent) emissions equipment, louder than stock exhausts, cars lowered more than the letter of the law allows, and all kinds of other things that aren't technically legal.

Somehow we'll all survive........and if not, there's always Mexico where car laws will never hold any weight!

irish44j wrote: cars lowered more than the letter of the law allows,

There are laws on that?

Also I swear my car is all legal.

irish44j wrote: before you all blow a vein in your heads, just remember that there are few, if any, automotive regulations out there that can't be un-done by 99% of the people on this board. I'm quite certain people on here are running with altered (or absent) emissions equipment, louder than stock exhausts, cars lowered more than the letter of the law allows, and all kinds of other things that aren't technically legal. Somehow we'll all survive........and if not, there's always Mexico where car laws will never hold any weight!

You boys like Mex-i-co?

Knurled wrote: Every drive by wire VWAG product is like this. Two seconds is all you get, then the throttle snaps shut.

I havent driven the latest VAG iteration but I learned several years ago that if you completely release the throttle after you press the brake then press the throttle again without lifting completely from the brake you do have throttle control again.

I understand that if you disconnect the brake light switch on the pedal, the throttle never shuts down. I have never tried this. I dont race a post "Unintended Acceleration" fixed VAG product so never felt the need.

This is really becoming a world I don't want to live in...

Then again, every year there are fewer and fewer new cars I'm even remotely interested in buying, so maybe it doesn't matter.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: I've had it up to here with all the car legislation. Sure, make all of it available to anyone who wants to buy it. Buy a car with guard rails wrapped all the way around it and 1700 air bags for all I care. That's all great stuff. But it's absolutely absurd to legislate all the "safety" crap they've legislated into cars in the same STATE OF CALIFORNIA that allows legal lane splitting on a motorcycle.

fixed that for you.

Illegal in all other states, and a reckless charge in VA.

Actually, you all use and enjoy regulations on car pedals already. Standards that say the gas pedal will be on the right, the brake to the left of that, and the clutch to the left of the brake.

If we didn't have that, and had to go between cars with pedals all over the place, we'd all have problems.

New problems do come up, and some of them need to be addressed. We've all lived for decades with cars that turned on and off with a key we twisted. We all understand that. Then, they started playing with alternative methods of starting and turning off cars, and that has created some problems.

Drivers education is nifty, but often times not the answer. You can't be taught how to drive every unregulated permutation of vehicle that has or could ever be created. So instead, we create a standard and say "all cars shall be done this way", and you learn that.

alfadriver wrote: Fun to be anti government, I guess.

It isn't fun - it's serious business. This is just the proliferation of red tape. Red tape always ends up costing us - taxpayers/consumers money. Since nothing here ever gets done without a financial incentive I'd bet there is an insurance lobby behind this and berkeley if I want to help them apply another patch to CYA themselves on my dime.

Is the idea of not stuffing rugs under the controls and understanding how to turn off your new car somehow beyond the sphere of basic vehicle operation that now we need laws? Really? When was the last time you got in a car with dangerous factory pedal placement and got out because you feared for your safety?

foxtrapper wrote: Actually, you all use and enjoy regulations on car pedals already. Standards that say the gas pedal will be on the right, the brake to the left of that, and the clutch to the left of the brake. If we didn't have that, and had to go between cars with pedals all over the place, we'd all have problems.

There probably are regulations about gas pedals on the right, but I don't know that they are necessary. Things have been the way they are for a while

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_amZsf8A1Lo

(or, if you don't want to watch)

http://tviv.org/Top_Gear/Season_10_Episode_8#Search_for_the_Modern_Day_Car.27s_Predecessor

Clarkson and May then stumbled upon the Cadillac Type 53 from 1916. Its handbrake and gear level are in the middle of the car and it has three pedals on the floor in the right order. It has no starter handle and was the first car to come with an ignition key. The Cadillac Type 53 was the first properly modern car, but nobody knew it would be the template for the modern car. Sir Herbert Austin, however, came along and copied the ideas in the Cadillac and incorporated them into his car, the Austin 7. The Austin 7 cost £125 (roughly £4,700 or $9,700 today), four times less than the Cadillac Type 53. It was built under license by BMW in Germany and copied by Datsun in Japan. The Austin 7 took Cadillac's bright idea, showed it to the world and made it stick.

Thank God NHTSA doesn't have regulations for things like headlights or turn signals, every single car on the road would look identical!

Bob

(why don't we have an eye-rolling/sarcastic smileyface thing?)

In reply to alfadriver:

The trillions in debt, the increased government spending, the earmarks of pork, the deteriorating foreign policy, and the extreme government corruption are just a few of the more pressing issues our politicians should be dealing with rather than standardizing automotive controls that never needed it in the first place.

I still don't understand why we don't have "city car" regulations.

I mean, we've got all kinds of regulations keeping scooters off highways, pedestrians off highways, helmets required in one state but not another, 3-wheel vehicles classified as motorcycles or limited to off-highway only.

Like mentioned above, I want a small, lightweight, 55mph max car that gets 60mpg.

foxtrapper wrote: Actually, you all use and enjoy regulations on car pedals already. Standards that say the gas pedal will be on the right, the brake to the left of that, and the clutch to the left of the brake. If we didn't have that, and had to go between cars with pedals all over the place, we'd all have problems.

This is what makes riding old or custom motorcycles so much fun. All of the controls are moved all over the place.

ProDarwin wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: Actually, you all use and enjoy regulations on car pedals already. Standards that say the gas pedal will be on the right, the brake to the left of that, and the clutch to the left of the brake. If we didn't have that, and had to go between cars with pedals all over the place, we'd all have problems.

This is what makes riding old or custom motorcycles so much fun. All of the controls are moved all over the place.

Right side shift makes more sense anyway.

ProDarwin wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: If we didn't have that, and had to go between cars with pedals all over the place, we'd all have problems.

This is what makes riding old or custom motorcycles so much fun. All of the controls are moved all over the place.

I can't recall how many times I've jumped into a 911 or SAAB and had to think about where the key was. There ought to be a LAW!!! What if I needed to shut it off and couldn't remember where it was?