im berking stumped

So ive been daily driving the elky. Been trying to diagnose a spooky steering issue. Best way I can describe it is the car, once recived input from the steering wheel, takes a fraction of a second to react. Then you have to manually pull it back or it will continue to steer in that direction.

I have increased caster, changed toe, manually checked all suspension parts. The alignment changes seemed to make thing better briefly. Today it got dramatically worse than ever before. In addition, with weight on the front, and engine off, I almost cannot turn the wheels. On gravel. And I'm pretty berkeleying strong. Takes all I got. Didn't do that Sunday when I was aligning it. Hell, didn't do that at the start of my 200 mile day today.

Still cant find anything worn. All pieces properly greased. Every part but center link and idler arm replaced in the last 3k.

Ive got no berkeleying clue. Please help me before it kills me.

That sounds like a steering gear that's failing. I had a rack that did that to me just before it failed completely. Kind of surprising when you turn the wheel and nothing happens.

How do I check and confirm this? Id rather not throw money at it till it goes away. Ive already got a Subaru im doing that with.

It does sound like the steering gear is going bad to me as well, especially when it keeps trying to turn unless you turn it back. Sounds like the control valving in the box is the problem. Should be easy enough to borrow a good used box to test it.

I would start by looking for play in the gear. There should be a measurement for that.

Try here. http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=27532

Either play in steering gear or too much preload on the steering gear preventing it from returning to center.

"Memory steer" is a common issue on 80s Ford trucks. And 90s. And probably the real old stuff too.

If its a Saginaw box like everything GM since the beginning of time, this may help:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/570869-saginaw-box-rebuild-how.html#/forumsite/21027/topics/570869

Its common to take them apart and tap fittings into the hydraulic ports to plumb in hydraulic assist for 4x4/Jeep stuff. I did it on my 03 Wrangler, but it has a Mercedes steering box so my pics/video are probably no help. They come apart way differently.

Box is a late 90s jeep grand Cherokee box. If that makes a difference.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Then that's exactly the box type it has. Also edited my last post FWIW.

Edit: ah you're right by Uwharrie, went there many times with my Jeep.

Had this on an old Pontiac. I called it "wonder steer" cause every time I changed lanes I wondered where it would steer. Problem was an idler arm and student budget. Was cheaper to get another (POS)car than fix it at the time.

Something, somewhere, is too tight. Knock the tie rods off, and see what's hard to move, then fix that. Its quite possible the steering box is worn, and the adjustment has been tightened down too much. Does it turn more easily once you are a turn off center? That pretty much guarantees the box is adjusted wrong.

Don't discount steering column bearings.

So, I dropped the truck off with my front end guy. I couldn't find anything wrong.

They couldn't either.

Their thoughts are that with my power steering fluid routed through the auto trans cooler, on warmer days with extended driving, the fluid is all but boiling.

Does that sound plausible? Its easy enough to bypass the cooler and check, but I want to ask the hive first.

Also, the steering box came from a low milage Cherokee, and I have never adjusted it.

Put about 1000 trouble free miles on the truck before this started. So I have a hard time believing something is becoming seized now.

I will also try knocking the tie rods off and checking box/linkage independent of ball joints.

Also, could tight wheel bearings cause this? They spin free with no play cold, but haven't checked hot.

Im trying to do everything short of throwing parts at it.

My father's lincoln town car had an identical issue, replaced the idler arm and it's perfect now.

I have to ask, why are you running your power steering through the auto trans cooler? I would go back to stock routing for sure - that cooler is massive, and with fluid being pushed by a little tiny pump, it wouldn't surprise me if you have strange pressure drop issues.

Might also try starting the engine with the front end in the air and turning the wheel to check that the valves are working. If a valve is leaking, the wheels will slowly start turning one way or the other.

I had run it that way for a neat and clean cooler.

Ill try to start it jacked up. Never heard of that test.

Last time i had this problem was in my FIAT 124 Spider. the passenger side idler arm was binding in the box due to corrosion. Replaced it with a known good used part. Problem solved.

Have you looked at rear trailing arm bushings? Rear steer can make some weird stuff.

Idler arm or steering box. This can't be a hydraulic problem, although your current setup certainly could cause some. I'd recommend having a separate PS cooler, even if it isn't neat and tidy. Your current cooler setup isn't good for any part relying on it.

(Edit: As in, your trans and PS system shouldn't be sharing fluid)

u joint in the steering column?

Best way to check idler arm? It has no play.

Same with center link. It has studs like a tie rod, and no play.

Rag joint is solid.

I have one of those boxes, pretty low miles (less than 90K).

I really don't like it. Super numb.

For as long as I can remember, the car has been incredibly sensitive to road crown. Driving straight on a normal crown 2-lane road usually requires 4 degrees of steer towards the centerline/top of the crown to keep the car straight. Every change in road camber results in an active steering input to keep from moving off-line.

Don't these have a rag joint as the connection between the steerign gearbox and teh column? I knwo our car did weird things when this started to wear out.

We changed over to a shaft from a Jeep cherokee to get the U joint instead of the rag joint.

Failing idler arm or joint, most likely.

wvumtnbkr wrote: We changed over to a shaft from a Jeep cherokee to get the U joint instead of the rag joint.

The rag joint isn't a bad thing to have, it's an intentional failsafe in the steering. Without one your column U-joints will wear faster, and if a catastrophic amount of force goes through the column, you could have a more costly and dangerous failure. If a rag joint fails you just end up with a ton of play in the steering.

I'd prefer to have a rag joint in an offroad vehicle.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Best way to check idler arm? It has no play. Same with center link. It has studs like a tie rod, and no play. Rag joint is solid.

I disconnected the center link and tried to move the idler by hand with the wheels off. I could hardly budge it with only the one hub and tie rod connected. so while it had "no play," it wouldn't pivot either.

I'll ask the stupid question: Are you lug nuts tight?