Built in obsolescence...
Super-dramatic. It didn't kill the car.
Looks like modem change was actually MY2017. And it only affected things that actually had a subscription. The 3G network in the US was shut down in 2022.
https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/3g-network-sunset
Mercedes offers a plug-in replacement option called "Hum".
https://www.verizon.com/solutions-and-services/add-ons/protection-and-security/hum-by-verizon/
I'd like to point out that the analog phone in my E39 hasn't worked since I got the car, because the analog AMPS network was shut down in 2008. It's not built-in obsolescence, it's tying consumer durables with a long lifespan to fast-moving tech. Like the 30-pin iPod connector in my 2010 Dodge that became obsolete in 2012.
I'm not sure when the decision was made to shut down the 3G network. It could be that Mercedes switched modems as soon as they knew.
Clearly Mercedes learned nothing from BMW's seat heating subscription debacle.
I'm wondering if it would be possible to use a 3G-to-5G femtocell to connect these old cars to modern cell networks. It looks like no such thing is commercially available but it may be technically possible.
One other thing, someone needs to show that OEM X knew in advance that a network was going to be shut down. Like in Canada, I know 3G still exists, as we constantly get that when we are near the Canadian border. And when did the phone companies all decide to shut down the networks in 2022?
It sucks, most certainly. But it's not entirely the OEM's fault that they chose something they didn't know would be shut down.
And what things had subscriptions in 2017 that were not navigation? And car nav sucks compared to phones. Easy to "replace".
The w210 has a similar issue so the gps and phone home options go off every time you get in but there's a fix if you want to pay for it. It doesn't brick the car.
alfadriver said:And what things had subscriptions in 2017 that were not navigation? And car nav sucks compared to phones. Easy to "replace".
From the Mercedes site. Basically, anything that required external data.
mbrace services work on a subscription basis. Owners without a subscription presently have no services available.
Owners with an active mbrace subscription will no longer have access to any mbrace connected car features and services such as automatic collision notification, emergency call, information call, roadside call, stolen vehicle tracking, remote services and MB Apps through the infotainment system.
Other infotainment services such as Navigation, Bluetooth and Sirius XM are not part of mbrace and will not be affected.
I like car nav better than phone nav if it's done well, as it's fully integrated into the vehicle's controls. This is particularly obvious when refueling is part of the navigation. But unless it's connected, the phone nav is easier to update. The nav in that E39 is hilariously out of date although it is better integrated into the car than having a phone propped up in the center console. Last time I took the car to Vegas, navigation was done by the passenger. Just like when grandma and I used paper maps :)
In reply to Keith Tanner :
And I know that many phones have auto 911 calling.
Keith Tanner said:I like car nav better than phone nav if it's done well, as it's fully integrated into the vehicle's controls.
I like car nav better than "phone sitting in the cup holder" nav, but Android Auto (or presumably CarPlay if you're an iPhone person) is better than either, IME. Well-integrated with the vehicle controls, but piggybacking off the up-to-date tech in your phone.
Cars not only outlast phone technologies, they also take a comparatively long time to be developed. A 2020 E-class appears to be a W213, which was first released in 2016, and presumably all the components were designed a couple years before that. You can't just drop a new cellular system into a car without extensive integration development and testing, so even if they knew in 2020 that 3G was going to be shut down in 2022, the choice was probably between shipping the car with a 3G radio or shipping it with no radio.
I disagree that CP/AA is fully integrated into the car. It might be integrated into the controls, but it does not get any info from the car. It's just projecting onto the internal screen. This becomes important when the navigation includes a refueling strategy, which will even include calculations such as driver behavior and HVAC settings.
What should MB have done? Built it for a network that doesnt exist yet?
It's a Mercedes diesel. Nowhere did it enter the calculations that the motor could possibly outlive the cellular radio!
93gsxturbo said:What should MB have done? Built it for a network that doesnt exist yet?
That was an option, I remember 5G phones were available before there were many 5G networks deployed. Anyone who works with cellular technology could've seen the 3G deprecation coming years away. Another option would be to issue a recall for an updated entertainment system with 4G/5G, or at least offer it as an upgrade option, assuming it's an Android-box-style single-board computer it probably costs under $200.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Well, they did see it coming years away. They had time to work out an LTE solution that made it to market more that five years before the 3G sunset - the 2017 models had an LTE radio in the US, and the car in the video is a 2016 model.
It is a shame they didn't come up with an alternate modem, although the Verizon plug-in option is available. And the advantage of that is that it can be installed by the car owner. Given all the electrical engineering that has to be done to safely embed a piece of radio telecom equipment into a rolling computer containing people (you really don't want the ignition to shut down when you get a phone call), a modem retrofit may have been implausible.
A recall is an interesting idea. How old does a car have to be before the manufacturer isn't responsible for external tech changing? Again, the newest Mercedes affected by the 3G shutdown in the US was 5-6 years old. Is it Mercedes' responsibility to update the modem? Dodge didn't send me an updated cable to replace my 30 pin Apple connector when the lightning plug was released, and that was when the truck was only two years old. What do we expect?
GameboyRMH said:93gsxturbo said:What should MB have done? Built it for a network that doesnt exist yet?
That was an option, I remember 5G phones were available before there were many 5G networks deployed. Anyone who works with cellular technology could've seen the 3G deprecation coming years away. Another option would be to issue a recall for an updated entertainment system with 4G/5G, or at least offer it as an upgrade option, assuming it's an Android-box-style single-board computer it probably costs under $200.
Harden that for a car, and develop it, and it will be considerably more expensive. Remember cars (even the infotainment system) doesn't have nearly the problems as normal consumer devices.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
One option for OEM's would be to allow specific suppliers to update the software to run the "car play" on the screen. Assuming the screen is powerful enough. Not sure if that would work, but it's an idea. Many cars got the basic USB ports that can be used for wired "car play".
In reply to alfadriver :
I think CarPlay/Android Auto are just projection. That's what a friend who's much closer to the industry told me. Basically, the equivalent of audio bluetooth for display. It would be really interesting if someone managed to come up with a way to broadcast some of the internal data to a phone so it could be used, but boy howdy does that introduce a whole can of worms of version control, privacy and standardization.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
The hard part about the casting is holding the phone companies to a standard system for more than a little while. But it's a great replacement for the display that would need phone service.
(and seeing how some car tech had progressed in the last decade, holding the auto industry to a real standard now has gotten really tough. SAE has their work cut out for them)
Just another reason to keep older cars running.
Ford decided to push an OTA update to my Raptor this past week. I was at a redlight when it decided to update itself and it bricked the whole car for 10 minutes and I couldn't move from the light. I sent a nicely worded email to Ford about the issue. berkeleying automotive tech is stupid these days.
In reply to DirtyBird222 :
You should have contacted NHTSA. I'm totally serious that you should have, and probably should still contact them and complain.
Ford isn't going to do anything for one consumer- it would take a ton of them at the same time to do anything. NHTSA will more likely do something for one consumer, given the potential of a serious problem if car is locked up in traffic.
Keith Tanner said:I disagree that CP/AA is fully integrated into the car. It might be integrated into the controls, but it does not get any info from the car. It's just projecting onto the internal screen. This becomes important when the navigation includes a refueling strategy, which will even include calculations such as driver behavior and HVAC settings.
If your fueling stations aren't few and far between, refuel strategies are as simple as the fuel gauge letting you know you need it and pulling off at the next exit.
As to navigation, all of the car-based systems I've used are horrible, outdated, or worse. My Garmin GPS is mounted to the screen of the Touareg nav system.
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