Incase you didn't already know... Don't ever put a space saver on the rear of a WRX.

Just wanted to share the story of how I learned my lesson and how my love for Subaru has greatly diminished.

Last summer I embarked on a long road trip in my 2002 WRX Wagon to help a friend pick up a new daily driver (a 2004 Forester XT ironically). A little bit into the trip there, by WRX had a blowout. Being a long towing distance from home, I contemplated my options. The best seemed to be to toss on the donut and hobble the car to the nearest tire store and just have the tire replaced and continue on our way. Logic was telling me that if it was supplied with the car, it should be atleast usable short term... I also checked the owners manual, which only listed a warning about speed.

The nearest tire store was a good distance away, so we putzed it there off the highway. Eventually, I could smell gear oil and then noticed smoke coming from the rear shortly before we got to the store. We let it cool down for a little bit then got to the tire place. This is where the "costs" start up. The tire store REFUSED to just change the one tire with the car at the store. The other three tires were going to be due for a change in the near future, so I caved and bought a new set. The tire store was not busy at all, but somehow it took 5/6 hours to finally get the tires on. I also had them check the diff fluid, which not surprisingly was pitch black. After leaving the tire store, we snagged a quart of gear oil and did a quick swap. The diff was a bit whiney, but the car felt fine. We ended up having to wait till the next weekend to get the other car. COSTs: Tires - around $550, diff fluid - $2X, and an entire Saturday.

The diff was slightly audible, but everything functioned fine and I figured I'd swap the diff down the road. Once any trace of winter was gone, I took the car off the road to do some needed maintenance and repairs. I started the work and the search for a used diff, but another project followed by a tree going through my garage roof derailed both. After finishing and enjoying the other project car, I decided that I wanted to get rid of the WRX to further fund it. Figuring that the noisy diff would deter potential buyers, I set out to find a used diff. I (VERY WRONGLY) figured this would be the only investment into making the car sale worthy... I couldn't find a diff nearby, so I had to settle for one a little bit of a distance away. COST: diff - $150, a good bit of gas in my thirsty pick up, and eventually some time because the wiper linkage in the truck came apart during the trip...

Figuring that it would be a simple swap, I set out to change the diff. I did a small ammount of HW and found a write up that explained how to remove the diff without pulling the axle from the hub. All you had to do was remove this big long bolt that connects the lateral link and trailing arm to the knuckle and you can free the axle from the diff. Awesome, except that must only work on Subaru's from Florida, with 50k on them... After unloading every kind of penetrating snake oil I could find on it, the bolt broke. That's how I discovered over 180k miles and 12/13 Michigan winters had fused the knuckle, bolt and bearing sleeves into one piece. Awesome. No amount of oils, heat, hammering etc. could work anything free. I ended up cutting through the bolt, which probably trashed knuckle, which doesn't really matter because the remnants of the bolt that are in it won't come out. The ABS sensor is also stuck. Looks like both will need to be replaced, along with the bolt and bushings. The axle was in good shape, so I figured I'd try to salvage that. Nope, nothing will break it free from the hub, and the threads are trashed from hammering on the nut to keep the shaft from getting mushroomed.

Looks like I now need the bolt/nut/washers, two bushings, a knuckle, an ABS sensor, an axle and atleast one wheel stud. Luckily with this axle out, I'll be able to drop the diff and pull the other axle without doing all of this crap on the other side... I haven't bought everything yet, but COST (so far): bushings/bolt/washers/nut - $90 (WTF), an entire bottle of Kroil, multiple bottles of PB Blaster, Acetone, ATF, multiple packs of cigarettes and cans of Milwaukee's Best, probably what amounts to days of time hammering on things, and some adverse side effects probably from breathing in rubber smoke and acetone fumes.

Just hunting around, looks like the other parts will easily total over $200. I also have front axles I want to swap in, but I'm having second thoughts. Believe it or not, I used to complain about working on DSM's.

To top it off, the Forester XT my buddy and I were going to pick up on that fateful day ended up being a huge headache for my buddy. After nine months and countless major failures, he gave up on it. Luckily, he was able to pawn it off for a huge gain on a buyer that completely ignored white smoke coming from the exhaust that we suspected was a headgasket...

I hate Subarus now.

180K miles and 12/13 Michigan winters will fuse ANY car together not just Subarus.

It has 180K lived in the salt belt for 12 years what are you complaining about. Most ANY car would be the exact same. You should look under my 2000 expedition it has 170K and lived in Michigan for the first 3 years of its life and then came to the north east. I am not sure that is a bolt left under it. I call them rust rivets or rust studs. You should be thankful that the whole car has not decomposed back in to a pile of rust and plastic bits.

Ohya think AAA next time. I get 100 mile tows for free.

dean1484 wrote: It has 180K lived in the salt belt for 12 years what are you complaining about. Most ANY car would be the exact same. You should look under my 2000 expedition it has 170K and lived in Michigan for the first 3 years of its life and then came to the north east. I am not sure that is a bolt left under it. I call them rust rivets or rust studs. You should be thankful that the whole car has not decomposed back in to a pile of rust and plastic bits.

Exactly. I (unfortunately) still live in Michigan. The salt eats them up like acid.

Dumb that the provided spare caused an issue.

The transfer case is most likely screwed as well.

Here's a question: was the car running 4 stock-sized wheels and tires? If you were running a spare with some aftermarket wheels and tires that didn't share the same outside diameter, you probably cooked your differential. All tires have to have the same outside diameter, or be REALLY close. It's not just a sales gimmick or old wives' tale.

Also, the tire store was just trying to cover itself. Changing just one tire while keeping 3 other worn tires would have likely cooked the diff as well.

Tire store refused to change just one tire? I think we should all send them tons of hate mail.

I think the OP just needed to vent. I have been there. I have a love hate relationship with my Porsche and go through the OP's rants now and then. I usually use 4 letter words and threaten it with driving one of my fords and then the P car sees the light and comes around to seeing things my way.

I wasn't really complaining about the rust. However, I've dealt with lots of other high mileage Michigan winter victims that didn't give me nearly this much trouble. I was mostly pointing out the fact that I wouldn't have had to deal with it, had I not mistakenly thought the space saver would be OK.

The car was on the stock wheels and stock sized tires. The space saver definitely isn't the same diameter.

dean1484 wrote: I think the OP just needed to vent. I have been there. I have a love hate relationship with my Porsche and go through the OP's rants now and then. I usually use 4 letter words and threaten it with driving one of my fords and then the P car sees the light and comes around to seeing things my way.

Haha that's it. Just wanted to see if others chuckled at some of the irony in the situation.

Northern cars sound miserable. FL has $1500 hard top miatas rust free :)

SilverFleet wrote: Here's a question: was the car running 4 stock-sized wheels and tires? If you were running a spare with some aftermarket wheels and tires that didn't share the same outside diameter, you probably cooked your differential. All tires have to have the same outside diameter, or be REALLY close. It's not just a sales gimmick or old wives' tale. Also, the tire store was just trying to cover itself. Changing just one tire while keeping 3 other worn tires would have likely cooked the diff as well.

This. Since my summer tires are slightly larger diameter than my winter (stock size) wheels, I actually carry a full-size spare with a tire of the same size as my summers when those wheels are on the car (and the stock donut when my stock-sized winters are on).

Frankly though, I won't use either unless it's a true emergency. I have AAA 100-mile, so that would be my first call. If I can't do that for some reason, I'd rather use a can of fix-a-flat to limp the car to a repair place. I also carry a plug kit which I'll use if it's just a nail or something.

ncjay wrote: Tire store refused to change just one tire? I think we should all send them tons of hate mail.

tires store is smart and realizes that Subies require 4 tires with same size and simlar tread depth.

I just pulled out my winter set (with 50% tread) and found that one had a sidewall bubble. I replaced all four of them on my WRX.

shelbyz wrote: Luckily, he was able to pawn it off for a huge gain on a buyer that completely ignored white smoke coming from the exhaust that we suspected was a headgasket...

Oh great, now another person will hate Subarus when the head gasket blows and then end up posting on line how he/she will never buy another one.

If its that rusty don't try to change the front axles, the outer CV joint is likely a permanent part of the front hub and means the whole front knuckle would need replacing. I don't really have anything against Subarus though, other than that the parts can be expensive compared to other similar cars.

So... you hate Subarus because of user error and because northeastern weather and salt makes things rust?

My STi's owner's manual has, in multiple places in bold letters, warnings about only using the spare on the front (and turning the DCCD to open since it's a bit different than the WRX's diffs). I think it even has a warning label on the spare itself or the scissor jack but I can't remember at the moment. And it's basically S.O.P. for any AWD car, not just Subarus, and even for non-AWD cars not to put the spare on an LSD-equipped axle.

Feedyurhed wrote:

shelbyz wrote: Luckily, he was able to pawn it off for a huge gain on a buyer that completely ignored white smoke coming from the exhaust that we suspected was a headgasket...

Oh great, now another person will hate Subarus when the head gasket blows and then end up posting on line how he/she will never buy another one.

The evidence was pointed out. My buddy just didn't care to look into what it might have been. Car ran and drove perfectly fine. If I remember correctly, the buyer was too caught up with the STI wheels and suspension and dreaming of how many stickers he might put on his roof rack fairing, to take the time to think of what he might be getting into...

Travis_K wrote: If its that rusty don't try to change the front axles, the outer CV joint is likely a permanent part of the front hub and means the whole front knuckle would need replacing. I don't really have anything against Subarus though, other than that the parts can be expensive compared to other similar cars.

That was my thinking. I already know that the axles will come out of the trans, so what I might do is just leave the axle in the hub and just change the torn boots.

jsquared wrote: So... you hate Subarus because of user error and because northeastern weather and salt makes things rust? My STi's owner's manual has, in multiple places in bold letters, warnings about only using the spare on the front (and turning the DCCD to open since it's a bit different than the WRX's diffs). I think it even has a warning label on the spare itself or the scissor jack but I can't remember at the moment. And it's basically S.O.P. for *any* AWD car, not just Subarus, and even for non-AWD cars not to put the spare on an LSD-equipped axle.

Basically this. On top of that, only suckers buy 4 tires at a time for an awd car. Its not a bad idea, but the 2/32nds of an inch of tread depth does NOT make a difference in the slightest.

In reply to HiTempguy:

2/32 (1/16") of tread depth translates to a diameter difference of 4/32 (1/8").

Assuming he has the 205/55-16 tires that's about .392" more or less distance traveled per revolution. Doesn't sound like much but at 60 mph (not accounting for expansion at speed) that tire is spinning about 811 rpm. That's a 317.912" difference every minute.

Lump me in with the suckers.

Never put a different diameter tire on any axle equipped with a limited slip or locking diff. IIRC the Subarus do come with a donut spare, and its safe for the center diff below 45mph.

I was told on an awd subaru, the max difference between highest and lowest tire is 3/32nds of an inch.

Tire shop was just covering their ass, shops pay for way dumber E36 M3, thats why so many shops arent willing to help someone out.

I know of a certain local shop that paid for a brand new transmission in a 380K mile camry because they didnt check the "diff fluid". Hint: Camrys diff fluid is seperate from trans fluid.

In reply to Opti:

For normal driving, that is correct. For a short low speed trip to the tire shop they can handle the discrepancy, if you don't put it on the rear of a limited slip rear equipped model.