DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
1/5/12 9:39 a.m.

I posted this in the Daewoo build thread but I thought it was neat enough to warrant its own thread.

Today me and the kids took measurements of the engine bay and built prototype models out of cardboard. We'll check to make sure our models fit during the next meeting. We also looked at the stock manifold (I've bought two extras to chop up and use as the bases for our competing designs) and decided how to improve upon it. Honestly, improvement shouldn't be that big of a challenge. The 180 degree, sharp radius turn can't be good for flow and the runner length of 790 mm is clearly biased towards low end torque.

You can see just how huge the OEM part is by looking at it attached to the engine.

The middle school kids came up with something pretty conventional for their design. Basically they shot for small size and good flow. If I had to bet, I would assume this design actually ends up dynoing better, although I think it's going to end up killing low end torque. You can see the pictures below, but they essentially made a triangular box that is biggest near the TB and tapers towards the number 4 cylinder. This design is only 10 cm thick and will probably cut the weight of the stock manifold by 60%. Just looking at it compared to the old one, I'm guessing this manifold will be considerably more high rpm intensive.

The highschool kids, on the other hand, came up with something really trick. I hope this works better because if it does, it could be such a neat proof of concept.

As for the aforementioned concept, the idea is to build a reasonably compact manifold with short runners that still maintains good mid range power and a flat torque curve. The high school kids are trying to do this by separating the airflow from the reversion waves as much as possible. In theory, the airflow moves largely undisturbed from the very low mounted (close to the flat floor of the plenum) TB and then under the triangular cutouts, but each triangular cutout is designed to reflect the reversion waves at a 90 degree angle and off a flat surface before bouncing them straight back down to the runner. This effectively lengthens the duration of the reversion wave heading back to the intake valve with only a tiny increase in the size of the plenum and no increase in the length of the runner. I was playing with some ideas and think I might take this concept further by trying echo chambers of varying sizes attached to the vertical faces of each triangle. If the concept works, it should be a simple matter to make the manifold more low RPM biased by increasing the size of the echo chamber.

The students then decided to flatten the torque curve by staggering the distances of the reversion wave reflectors (what I'm calling those triangles). This should result in each cylinder having a slightly different torque curve. Since it has the longest distance between the intake valve and a reversion surface, cylinder one should make the best low end torque. Cylinder four should make the best high rpm power.

Like I said, I've never seen anything like this and I'm not sure if it will work, but the idea is so creative and interesting I'm really rooting for it.

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand Dork
1/5/12 10:32 a.m.

It's funny, I'd swear I've heard both indications that it's important to get runner lengths as close as possible and generally pay attention to getting all cylinders even. But I think I've also heard murmurs of this notion of evening out the torque curve by having different cylinders differ from one another...

Will you need to be able to trim fuel cylinder-by-cylinder? Or perhaps is it good enough at least for starters to either measure each cylinder and just make sure you're not going lean on cylinder 4 at WOT and high RPM? Maybe even just watch the overall A/F ratio and guesstimate how rich to go overall to make sure 4 isn't lean?

Neat stuff! Wish I'd gotten to do stuff like this in middle or high school...

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
1/5/12 11:15 a.m.
ransom wrote: Neat stuff! Wish I'd gotten to do stuff like this in middle or high school...

I don't know hardly anything about the theory, but this bit interests me - kudos to you!

DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
1/8/12 7:25 a.m.
ransom wrote: It's funny, I'd swear I've heard both indications that it's important to get runner lengths as close as possible and generally pay attention to getting all cylinders even. But I think I've also heard murmurs of this notion of evening out the torque curve by having different cylinders differ from one another... Will you need to be able to trim fuel cylinder-by-cylinder? Or perhaps is it good enough at least for starters to either measure each cylinder and just make sure you're not going lean on cylinder 4 at WOT and high RPM? Maybe even just watch the overall A/F ratio and guesstimate how rich to go overall to make sure 4 isn't lean? Neat stuff! Wish I'd gotten to do stuff like this in middle or high school...

Right now we're using the stock ECU so we can't trim fuel for each cylinder. For the baseline, I'll probably just have it run 11.5:1 at full throttle and high rpm just to protect the number four cylinder. I'm horrible with electronics, but my students aren't. Maybe we can do cylinder by cylinder trimming later and get some more power out of the setup.

DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
1/8/12 7:32 a.m.
tuna55 wrote:
ransom wrote: Neat stuff! Wish I'd gotten to do stuff like this in middle or high school...
I don't know hardly anything about the theory, but this bit interests me - kudos to you!

Here's how the highschool manifold will work in theory, explained via my incredibly crude drawings.

I'd love to hear thoughts, suggestions, etc.

11110000
11110000 Reader
1/8/12 8:39 a.m.

I'm an EM wave guy, so I'm just stumbling blindly here, but I'd guesstimate that the unequal reversion wave lengths represented by the decreasing outer boundary of the plenum will result in each cylinder reaching a slightly different resonant frequency of best cylinder filling. The difference is probably within a few percent, so you may find this broadens the powerband a bit as each cylinder in turn (1,2,3,4) hits a peak as you pull through the RPM band. A neat idea!

DaewooOfDeath
DaewooOfDeath HalfDork
1/8/12 9:11 a.m.

That's the idea. I hope it works.

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