Interesting Danica article.

When you look at it, She sells herself really well. Very good at marketing and positioning the Danica brand. She was a top 10 selling merchandising driver in 2012. I think she is going to be about #6 or 7 for 2013.

That will keep you in the driver seat for a long time. Shoot Dale Jr. has been #1 for over a decade and how many years has it been since he won anything.

It's just like college football. The richest program, Texas, haven't been successful really since 2005.

Talent wise, I don't see her any better than the other major women out there. I personally think Katherine Legge is just as good and if she had some better equipment under her in the major leagues, more people would know about her.

In reply to kreb:

Cool story.

Of course, the men in the 1/4 mile world have gotten used to being beaten by women.

Wally wrote: I would go with pretty much sucked since he didn't have Dad's bottomless pocket. Even Michael Waltrip managed to win in his cars even though it took Dale Sr killing himself to get it done, a selfless act is own brother never would have done.

I doubt that DEI's pockets were ever any deeper than Hendrick's. I don't know why Jr. doesn't win the way he used to, but money sure isn't it.

Could be desire, as Novaderrik said. Could be that some guys only have so much talent in them, and then one day it's gone. But it's not money.

I'm not even really a Jr fan, but he did finish 5th in points this year. He didn't win, but he's been second in the Daytona 500 2 years in a row. I don't think he's washed up just yet.

i like sarah fisher better.

kreb wrote: I'm heartened to not see the mindless, sexist Danica bashing that seems to inevitably work its way into most conversations of her. There have been successful women in motorsports for years. Here's a very inspirational one I read about this AM. I'm trying to convince my son to ask her out. But given that her intellect is even greater than the size of her ovaries, I'd imagine that most teenagers would be terrified of her: http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Girl-16-crushes-competition-in-monster-trucks-5022785.php

That's awesome

kreb wrote: I'm heartened to not see the mindless, sexist Danica bashing that seems to inevitably work its way into most conversations of her. There have been successful women in motorsports for years. Here's a very inspirational one I read about this AM. I'm trying to convince my son to ask her out. But given that her intellect is even greater than the size of her ovaries, I'd imagine that most teenagers would be terrified of her: http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Girl-16-crushes-competition-in-monster-trucks-5022785.php

I admire her brand.

I do not admire her (and her fans) whining about sexism. She sells sex, then gets pissed when people notice and treat her like a sex symbol. Can't have it both ways.

A few shots of Danica that most successful women in Motorsports would not do

She's a good driver, and one of the strongest brands in Motorsports. She will be around for a long time.

And yeah, that's pretty awesome with the monster trucks.

Will wrote: I doubt that DEI's pockets were ever any deeper than Hendrick's. I don't know why Jr. doesn't win the way he used to, but money sure isn't it.

it's not like he was a winning machine in the past .. he's only got 19 wins in his Cup career

Rusnak_322 wrote: If NASCAR had ten more Danica's and one less Jimmy Johnson, I would start watching again. Dale Jr pretty much sucked forever. same with michael Waltrip. How many raced did it take them to get a win?

for Jr. it's 19 wins out of 500+ starts

Mikey has 4 wins out of 700+ starts

Maybe money was the wrong word, but he was certainly the center of attention at DEI while he is not at Hendricks. Jr at least seems to try now and then. I have never been a fan of Mikey. He has turned a last name and bad hair into a pile of money Kyle Petty could only dream of.

Maybe I could take Danica( and most modern nascar drivers) seriously if nascar itself wasn't the automotive version of the WWE. Danica winning the pole in her first start at Daytona...really? And she backed that up how in over 40 some starts? France said it himself, when talking about Waltripgate, that they need to restore the integrity of nascar.

She isn't the first person to sit on a pole at Daytona the first time, or the first pole winner to go on and do little the rest of the year. If everything goes perfectly almost anyone there could put down one fast qualifying lap. A lot of rookie teams and limited budget teams put a great effort into qualifying at Daytona to make news. It's very hard for them to put that much money and effort into the rest of the year.

wbjones wrote:

Will wrote: I doubt that DEI's pockets were ever any deeper than Hendrick's. I don't know why Jr. doesn't win the way he used to, but money sure isn't it.

it's not like he was a winning machine in the past .. he's only got 19 wins in his Cup career

"Only" 19 wins. Look, Jr's name is never going to come up in the discussion of all-time best stock car driver. But saying "only" 19 wins? A lot of GRMers seem have a funny attitude about this topic. Look at how many great drivers have never won a single cup race--Boris Said, Scott Pruett, Ron Fellows, Dario Franchitti, etc.

Serious question: exactly how many wins do you have to have before you don't suck anymore? 19 wins at that level of competition is a hell of a lot. Do you need 20? 30? 50?

19 wins is a lot at the Cup level- but having only a couple of those wins in the last 6 years despite driving what are likely some of the best cars in the garage area on any given weekend means that something isn't clicking- especially when the other drivers that have access to the same stuff pile up wins and championships left and right..

Will wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Will wrote: I doubt that DEI's pockets were ever any deeper than Hendrick's. I don't know why Jr. doesn't win the way he used to, but money sure isn't it.

it's not like he was a winning machine in the past .. he's only got 19 wins in his Cup career

"Only" 19 wins. Look, Jr's name is never going to come up in the discussion of all-time best stock car driver. But saying "only" 19 wins? A lot of GRMers seem have a funny attitude about this topic. Look at how many great drivers have never won a single cup race--Boris Said, Scott Pruett, Ron Fellows, Dario Franchitti, etc. Serious question: exactly how many wins do you have to have before you don't suck anymore? 19 wins at that level of competition is a hell of a lot. Do you need 20? 30? 50?

well …. to name a few …

these are some of the ones that have more than 19

Speedy Thompson

Jack Smith

Jim Paschal

Rex White

Herb Thomas

these are just some of the less well known drivers that have more victories

he's 40th on the list of wins ….

She probably brings far more sponsor money into Hendricks than their top drivers do. So in essence, while she's not winning, she's probably paying for a larger proportion of the "powerhouse" team's expenses than its other drivers.

But really, no different from other sports. I'm watching Skins-Giants right now. Eli is a better QB than RGIII by a long shot, but RGIII probably makes a ton more money in endorsements since he's charismatic and Eli isn't. Or Ana Kournikova vs. (about 10 less attractive tennis players who routinely whooped her ass even in her prime). Or, how about Ken Block? Not the best rally driver in the world, but certainly the most well-known and by far the most marketed.

SVreX wrote: A few shots of Danica that most successful women in Motorsports would not do

[time to sound sexist, but really just trying to make a point about the marketing]:

In fairness, most of the men in here probably don't want to see those kind of photos of "most successful women in motorsports" other than Danica. Most of them aren't terribly attractive.

Here....here's some random list of "Top 15 hottes race car drivers" (first google result, as I try to prove a point). IDK who the "most successful" women in motorsports are, granted. But I'd say that most of them that are "hot" likely also have had some "sexy" photoshoots in their promotional careers at some point, just like most attractive female (and male) athletes do. How many times does my wife talk about freakin' David Beckham, who is the Danica Patrick of soccer?

http://www.sub5zero.com/top-15-hottest-female-race-car-drivers/

1. Half of those on the list wouldn't get a second look at a crappy college bar.
2. The half that are actually "hot" flaunt it just like Danica does.

I don't think the "hate" is because she's a woman or that she isn't talented enough. What I've never liked is the incessant whining about how she's had it so hard to get where she is or that she treated differently because she's a woman when it seems like her femininity is what has got her to such lofty heights. In a way, I guess she's right. If she was a man, I don't think she'd be getting paid to drive a racecar. Certainly not in Indy or NASCAR.

SVreX wrote: A few shots of Danica that most successful women in Motorsports would not do

I can't blame her for doing that. If I thought my boobs would get me a better job you'd see them everywhere.

So that's how Wally got that promotion...

LainfordExpress wrote: I don't think the "hate" is because she's a woman or that she isn't talented enough. What I've never liked is the incessant whining about how she's had it so hard to get where she is or that she treated differently because she's a woman when it seems like her femininity is what has got her to such lofty heights. In a way, I guess she's right. If she was a man, I don't think she'd be getting paid to drive a racecar. Certainly not in Indy or NASCAR.

+1

The world loves beautiful people. The cubicle farm loves the homely.

I don't understand why a lot of people call it sexist if someone says even the slightest thing negative about Danica. Heaven forbid anyone criticize her abilities as a race car driver.

I agree with what a few others have said in that even to be a backmarker in NASCAR, or other major motorsports, you need to have some talent. So I'll give her that. But within that class of people, be it male, female, undecided or both, she's a backmarker right now. She's in a top flight ride and struggles to finish in the top 25 unless it's a restrictor plate track. Most (not all) other rookies who have stepped into a top ride do much better, and if they don't, they're out the door fairly quick. Just like Mikey Waltrip, she's good for the sport, so she'll keep sponsors whether she wins or not.

I don't see it as sexist at all. Her on track performance so far has put her in the bottom 1/3 of all drivers category.

Wally wrote:

SVreX wrote: A few shots of Danica that most successful women in Motorsports would not do

I can't blame her for doing that. If I thought my boobs would get me a better job you'd see them everywhere.

I don't blame her, and I don't have a problem with it.

For her, it is a very important part of good branding.

Just don't cry "sexist" when that is exactly what you are promoting.

wbjones wrote:

Will wrote:

wbjones wrote:

Will wrote: I doubt that DEI's pockets were ever any deeper than Hendrick's. I don't know why Jr. doesn't win the way he used to, but money sure isn't it.

it's not like he was a winning machine in the past .. he's only got 19 wins in his Cup career

"Only" 19 wins. Look, Jr's name is never going to come up in the discussion of all-time best stock car driver. But saying "only" 19 wins? A lot of GRMers seem have a funny attitude about this topic. Look at how many great drivers have never won a single cup race--Boris Said, Scott Pruett, Ron Fellows, Dario Franchitti, etc. Serious question: exactly how many wins do you have to have before you don't suck anymore? 19 wins at that level of competition is a hell of a lot. Do you need 20? 30? 50?

well …. to name a few … these are some of the ones that have more than 19 Speedy Thompson Jack Smith Jim Paschal Rex White Herb Thomas these are just some of the less well known drivers that have more victories he's 40th on the list of wins ….

I'm not a junior fan at all, but the two differences between him and the guys on that list are these: 1: They didn't race in the Jimmy Johnson era. When you get one guy that can dominate like that, there's only a few races left to share amongst all the other drivers. 2: They almost all raced in the era of 60 or 70 races a year.

Danica deserves her ride for the same reason Michael Waltrip raced in cup for as long as he did- advertisers see something they like.

She has more driving talent in her little finger than I have in my whole body. Doesn't matter what set of primary sexual characteristics she owns. I think she's done well for a rookie and since she is high profile she brings in sponsors. Those things are enough to keep her on; if she starts winning that's icing on the cake.