Is assembly lube assembly lube is assembly lube?

Are there any brands to avoid, any brands or types to seek out?

Due to some pretty horrible circumstances that came about Thursday evening, i need to assemble another motor, and i'm wanting to leave pretty much NOTHING up to chance this time around since the new motor all in all will be in the $3000+ range.

Any other tools, fluids, or input/advice that would go along with this? I've never assembled a motor before. The top end will just consist of me slapping in some cams and caps. I will likely assemble the entire bottom end myself.

For instance, do i need a different lube for cams vs. the ARP studs i use? ARP rod bolts? Mains? How many lubes do i need?

I use, and recommend Royal Purple assembly lube....

here's why... When I assembled the replacement engine for Grunt(my All-Trac Corolla) I had rebuilt the oil pump. Well, I hadn't re-installed the pressure relief valve "E" clip correctly, and immediately after start up... the valve removed itself from the pump. The engine was running with NO OIL PRESSURE for about a min... maybe longer before I noticed....

I was pissed, angry, went away for 3 days, came back, removed the pan, found the parts, re-installed them... and to this day she is still running strong....

Use it on the crank, cams, inside the oil pump - EVERYWHERE you have contact

I recommend using a break-in oil as well. break-in oils are higher in zinc, and a few other compounds that help rings seat easier. I use the Joe Gibbs type... BR30

I've got two tubes of amsoil assembly lube I'll give to you.....

Gotta love $free99

oldeskewltoy wrote: I use, and recommend Royal Purple assembly lube.... here's why... When I assembled the replacement engine for Grunt(my All-Trac Corolla) I had rebuilt the oil pump. Well, I hadn't re-installed the pressure relief valve "E" clip correctly, and immediately after start up... the valve removed itself from the pump. The engine was running with NO OIL PRESSURE for about a min... maybe longer before I noticed.... I was pissed, angry, went away for 3 days, came back, removed the pan, found the parts, re-installed them... and to this day she is still running strong.... Use it on the crank, cams, inside the oil pump - EVERYWHERE you have contact

So Royal Purple on moving parts, ARP moly on fasteners?

Swank Force One wrote: So Royal Purple on moving parts, ARP moly on fasteners?

Depends if it is ARP... yes... if it is OEM, likely just clean oil.

yamaha wrote: I've got two tubes of amsoil assembly lube I'll give to you..... Gotta love $free99

I'll take that for the F2Ts i need to build.

Agreed on clean oil for the fasteners if stock. Really, do whatever the fastener provider suggests.

I've used a 50/50 mix of STP oil treatment and fresh motor oil for moving parts, and Comp sells a valvetrain break-in lube for all those bits. A good break-in oil sounds smart, and to not run it that long, maybe 100 miles or 3 hours of run time?

oldeskewltoy wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: So Royal Purple on moving parts, ARP moly on fasteners?

Depends if it is ARP... yes... if it is OEM, likely just clean oil.

All fasteners are ARP.

pres589 wrote: Agreed on clean oil for the fasteners if stock. Really, do whatever the fastener provider suggests. I've used a 50/50 mix of STP oil treatment and fresh motor oil for moving parts, and Comp sells a valvetrain break-in lube for all those bits. A good break-in oil sounds smart, and to not run it that long, maybe 100 miles or 3 hours of run time?

That's gonna be the tricky part. First motor didn't even live long enough to get a break in tune going.

At the motorcycle dealership we always used Bel-Ray Chain Lube. Never had an oil related failure.

Period.

One thing a race friend told me. Don't run those fine mesh external filters if you are using assembly/molly oil.

He had a canton which clogged because of the thicker oil. Undid all that new engine work :)

So on my new engine I'm going to run the break in period with the stock oil system/filter and then when I do the race oil change hook in the external filter/cooler and accusump. Saves all that heavy stuff going through all my lines too.

AndreGT6 wrote: One thing a race friend told me. Don't run those fine mesh external filters if you are using assembly/molly oil. He had a canton which clogged because of the thicker oil. Undid all that new engine work :) So on my new engine I'm going to run the break in period with the stock oil system/filter and then when I do the race oil change hook in the external filter/cooler and accusump. Saves all that heavy stuff going through all my lines too.

I actually use a Ford truck filter of some kind, i think i'll be ok.

I'll have to go a bit crazier when my end-game heads are done and i start revving this thing to 10k+ but for now shouldn't be a problem, it'll be shut down around 9k or when the current cams drop off, whichever comes first.

My recipe -

ARP Studs = ARP Lube
Bearings, cam, etc. = Torco Assembly Lube (though will probably go Joe Gibbs next time I buy)
Cylinder Walls = 2 stroke oil.

I have used STP but in most case just a good coating of engine oil has always worked well. Now with a new cam the supplied cam lube is good.

I believe any decent brand name assembly oil is good, but you need to follow it up by bringing up the oil pressure before turning the engine over. As mentioned before, oil filters can become clogged if you're not careful. Flat tappet cams and lifters with high spring pressures are one of the first places to get damaged if not lubed properly. I used to use a 50/50 mix of white lube and engine oil. No trouble with that ever, but now I rely on Joe Gibbs Driven assembly lube. If you really want to go the extra mile, use a set of break in valve springs with lower seat pressures.

pres589 wrote: Agreed on clean oil for the fasteners if stock. Really, do whatever the fastener provider suggests. I've used a 50/50 mix of STP oil treatment and fresh motor oil for moving parts, and Comp sells a valvetrain break-in lube for all those bits. A good break-in oil sounds smart, and to not run it that long, maybe 100 miles or 3 hours of run time?

For cams I use that STP oil treatment as well.

ncjay wrote: I believe any decent brand name assembly oil is good, but you need to follow it up by bringing up the oil pressure before turning the engine over. As mentioned before, oil filters can become clogged if you're not careful. Flat tappet cams and lifters with high spring pressures are one of the first places to get damaged if not lubed properly. I used to use a 50/50 mix of white lube and engine oil. No trouble with that ever, but now I rely on Joe Gibbs Driven assembly lube. If you really want to go the extra mile, use a set of break in valve springs with lower seat pressures.

I don't really want to do that as that'll be a special kind of hell....

But my valve springs have something like 195lbs of seat pressure. Wonder if that killed the current motor.

Engine Honey or STP on bearings, supplied cam lube like iceracer said, ARP lube per their fastener recommendations, light engine oil on cylinders. If possible, spin the oil pump to get the oil up prior to turning the engine over w/ the starter. Really never used a 'break in' oil on new engines just 30 wt non-detergent but these were mostly SBCs. Follow cam rpm/ time break in procedures. Change to recommended oil after that or within 500 mi.

I always change the oil filter after that, cut it open and inspect between the pleats to see if anything is abnormal.

No lube advice - but I will throw out the reminder - verify your calibrated tools are properly calibrated before you go to town. Shame to ruin a motor because you dropped a tool and it's out of cert.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Well, are the lobes flattened on a cam? What obvious damage is there?

Swank Force One wrote: Due to some pretty horrible circumstances that came about Thursday evening, i need to assemble another motor, and i'm wanting to leave pretty much NOTHING up to chance this time around since the new motor all in all will be in the $3000+ range.

Which car?

Swank Force One wrote: But my valve springs have something like 195lbs of seat pressure. Wonder if that killed the current motor.

What kind of engine is this??

I read earlier you are going for 10k rpm with this... most 10k worthy engines are usually running multiple valves (relatively small and light each). I'm just wondering what engine will spin to 10k, and have valve spring seat pressure of nearly 200#s???

I've researched this pretty heavily, but its just internet advice so take it at that.

There are two basic types of assembly lube you can use; paste-type which is usually gray and opaque, and syrup-type which is usually red and looks like the strawberry syrup you get at IHOP.

There are several other types which look like white lithium grease (like lubriplate) and others that look like gear oil (thick and stringy) Don't use them. They are 1958 technology and have no place in a modern build

Surfaces that are suspended with engine oil (like main and rod bearings, and cam bearings) should get ONLY engine oil. Those narrow surfaces are lubricated by pressurized oil. The oil pressure actually suspends the journals away from the bearings. Any thick oil or paste lube will do a great job of lubricating in a stasis, but when you fire up the engine, there will be no pressure to suspend those journals until the oil washes that paste out of the journals. It will be spinning on non-pressurized lube until the oil pressure can wash it out and supply its proper pressurized support.

The paste also contains a buttload of particles that can clog the oil filter and reduce oil pressure during break-in, or at least increase the chances of filter bypass and potentially circulate more of the metal shavings that tend to exist in freshly-machined engines.

Red syrup should be used on any metal-to-metal surfaces, like flat tappet cam lobes or followers. It works great on pushrod tips and cups or cam/valve followers. Those surfaces are not suspended by oil pressure, they are simply continuously washed with new oil. You want as much lubrication on those surfaces as possible until oil pressure takes over.

Use only engine oil on bearing journals like rods, mains, and cams. Use red syrup on any direct-contact parts like pushrods, flat-tappet cam lobes, fuel pump lobes, or distributor gears. The ONLY time I use the gray paste is on flat-tappet cam lifters/lobes (or followers) on an engine that may sit for more than 2 months without use. Otherwise, the red syrup is more than adequate.

I second Royal Purple. When I worked at The Vair Shop, that's all we used when rebuilding customers engines. Never had an engine failure.

In reply to pres589:

Front cams are seized but have no way to tell if that's what caused the problem or if they're just casualties of war. Either way I'm not using these heads or cams again. Too risky.