Both have merit. I will admit that it stings a little to be beaten by someone's wallet rather than their talent. Even worse when they have a "l'm better than you because I'm rich" attitude.
Both have merit. I will admit that it stings a little to be beaten by someone's wallet rather than their talent. Even worse when they have a "l'm better than you because I'm rich" attitude.
If you want to drive a certain car, get it how you can and have fun. I build my stuff. I'll also buy something already good to go. Don't care, have fun, don't be a dick, you do you.
Its not "built" vs "bought", that's just the subject matter. The personality of the person is the real implication. Must you put down others to feel better about yourself? Can you be interested and wowed by the accomplishments of others? Is "one up'ing" mandatory for your self esteem? Can you compare yourself to others and find intrigue, motivation, new ideas, and grow yourself?
Replace cars with any other subject: Income, job, house, beer, wife/husband, neighborhood, books, lawn, boats, toys, kids, family, etc. All boils down to the same simple question. Is the other person someone you will want/choose to be around? Are you?
I've been on both sides of the fence and now I am leaning on the bought side.
When I was younger, I built a couple of cars that were pretty darn fun. Did it from the ground up and totally enjoyed the journey. I had the time and didn't mind spending most nights in the garage building and maintaining them. It took me a couple of years to get the cars where I wanted them.
Now I'm in the bought but made a little better. Not into the massive projects. Now I'm focused on any change has to be able to be done in a weekend or I'm farming it out. I want to enjoy the cars and get them out to events as much as possible.
What changed? I bought the FM LS Swapped NC. Now could I have built that if given the time? Possibly. Would it have turned out nearly as nice. Heck no. And I would have had it probably spread across the garage for a couple years. That car really flipped the switch for me.
Will I do suspension work or bolt-on engine work? Sure. Will I do an engine swap now? Nahh, I'm good.
Now that I am a bit older and wiser, I understand what I am good at and enjoy and what I may be less good at and not enjoy. Depending on the project and goals that balabfe shifts a bit.
Colin Wood said:In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
It's just the question, something I was pondering the other day and wanted to ask the rest of the class.
I don't know if it's because it's what I've always done, or I'm just too cheap to buy,
But I've never valued a "bought" race car. Where is the guys investment? I've done it enough to know it will likely take me 1500 hours. If he just traded a check for that labor, is he going to value others cars as well?
The nice thing is without professional help that car will quickly expire no matter who built it.
15-20ish years ago, you could buy performance versions of regular cars, but they left a lot to be desired. Plenty of room to build the car into what you really wanted. Today, many manufactures have track capable performance vehicles. Vehicles that meet all the performance criteria an enthusiast could ask for while still being street legal.
With vehicle manufacture engineering capabilities and budgets, there's nothing I can really do to a new Z06 or a 1LE Camaro which will improve upon it. One can add an exhaust or supercharger to personalize the car, but that's far from claiming you built it.
My point is, in the past, if you didn't have Ferrari money, and wanted a truly high performance, track focused vehicle, you had to build it. Now, you can buy that performance, all sorted and simply get to driving and enjoying it. And that performance is attainable for the working class....mostly. I don't see any shame in admitting a car company, with its years of experience and army of engineers, is better at building a performance vehicle, with the least trade offs, than I am.
Some of the builds here are immensely cool, and im amazed at the talents (and time) some of you have to pull these projects off. But it doesn't mean I'm not a legit car guy because I rock a bone stock Z06.
In reply to Colin Wood :
At this point in my build I could have bought a faster, newer, and likely better (used) car for the money. However, to me the value is not just in driving the car, but also in the process of the build. Getting to know every single bolt, learning new things, solving problems, having pride in a job well done. You don't get that when you buy. On the other hand, if I bought I would have a running car right now, not a project on jack stands. I wouldn't say built it better, but building appeals to my inner car nerd. To each their own. Way, way, back it used to be that if you wanted fast you had to build, but factory performance packages have been amazing for decades.
Reading through all the comments so far, and I'm glad to see that there's plenty of room in our hobby/sport/livelihood for both.
Built shows understanding, it shows you are a car guy (or girl) at heart and you understand your machine.
Bought... anyone can buy a cool car.
It's about that distinction, if you know, you know.
It's not that bought isn't acceptable, as I appreciated the awesomeness of the car itself regardless... It's just that each layer of what it took to get the car to where it is today entitles each to a certain percent of credit for the awesomeness the car exhibits. Something like:
Physically turning the vision into reality = 20%
Having the vision = 20%
Paying for the vision to be turned into reality = 20%
Currently owning the car = 20%
Understanding the car = 20%
All numbers are divided by the number of associated people.
For a mass manufactured vehicle: Credit for 40% of the awesome goes to the development and production teams divided out by the the teams sizes, 40% goes to the buyers divided by the number sold, and 20% is divided by the number of enthusiast buyers. Buyers of 1-off commissioned cars get 40%-60% of the awesome credit. And scratch builders get 100% of the awesome credit. Of course, not all cars are equally awesome either.
The key in my mind is that people who basically try to take less personal credit for the awesome than they deserve are generally cool. People who basically try to take more personal credit for the awesome than they deserve generally suck.
Ultimately though, the awesomeness of a car, and amount of credit one gets for it, has zero to to with their awesomeness as a person.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Thank you for your completely honest confession.
There's a lot of personal satisfaction in wrenching it yourself, however not everyone has the time, skill or patience. That's OK. Buying it still puts money into the hobby. How is that bad?
It's frustrating for me to go to a car-motorcycle show and ask the guy standing there smoking a huge cigar "How's she ride?" Dunno, trailered it. Ah. Hot rodders have a trunk full of tools, street rodders have a trunk full of lawn chairs. It's still money into the hobby and a personal preference. (or opportunity)
Loaded question, accepted by me; but accepted by all?
In reply to mr2peak :
just because i'm selling off stuff to go out and buy a skyline doesn't make it any less an enthusiast owned car or make me any less of a car guy for doing that instead of building it or restoring it from the ground up like the dozens of other cars i have done.
gatekeeping titles and hobbies is silly
I think another aspect is also that when it comes to track-capable cars, there just isn't that much to gain from building up a modern car, especially if you want to keep it fully street legal. So unless the purpose of the exercise is building, it probably makes more sense time wise and financially to buy a new Supra instead of a GR86, just to turbo the 86 because it's too slow. Or build up a Civic Si when I can get a Type R that does similar or better lap times than the built Si.
So to me, both are equally valid - I like futzing about with cars (despite the noises coming out of my shop, especially the Range Rover related noises), but that has cut into my track time quite severely more than once to the extent that it's starting to annoy me and my perspective on "but I could buy five dodgy E36 M3boxes for the same money" is starting to change.
The other part is that I'm not as broke as I used to be, my time is worth more and working on something has somewhat shifted from being a necessity so I actually have a trackable car to something I have a choice to do (or not to do).
If someone can explain to me how you "build" a car for street-class racing, that'd be great.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Same. I enjoy the build process to an extent. I enjoy driving and not being the shop for months on end more.
In reply to sfunk1x :
If you mean for autocross, "build" tends to mean, tune/test/re-tune/re-test over and over to the Nth degree. Some folks are better and more meticulous about that process within restrictive rules than others. Not to mention experience (and talent) to be able to tell what changes help and what changes don't and how conditions will affect changes.
mr2peak said:Built shows understanding, it shows you are a car guy (or girl) at heart and you understand your machine.
Bought... anyone can buy a cool car.
It's about that distinction, if you know, you know.
I've done multiple engine swaps. Including an OBD-1 S52 into an E30 in a gravel driveway. Suspension, BBKs, etc. Nowadays I'd rather just buy something that's quick, capable and has a warranty.
So am I no longer a "car guy" because I don't enjoy spending all my free time in the garage?
Gotta know the audience. Rolling up to a Hollywood red carpet event, Lambo, Limo, or some kind of statement. Cars and Coffee, they might like your home built plywood hot rod. In this group, built truly trumps bought. In the vast majority of the world, the opposite is true. Oil sheiks might not have the capacity to appreciate, say an LS swapped Metropolitan, maybe I have a hard time appreciating their gold plated Koniggsegg. Entirely up to the individual.
Personally, either is perfectly acceptable provided you don't lock it away and forget it is there.
rslifkin said:Bought is fine. But some people who buy something have entirely the wrong attitude about it.
I find more often it's the build not buy people are the ones with an attitude - it seems like they can look down their noses at anyone who hasn't hand dug the iron ore and forged the parts themselves.
Both are fine.
Both can get you something neat
In terms of sharing the experience with others, bought means you both appreciate what someone else did and you have pride of ownership. Built means you get to be proud of what you've achieved. And/or apologetic about flaws 
You give up different things to get these different things.
I'm more excited about building something cool, but when I had a neat, stone stock Italian superbike I was happy to gush along with others about how cool the folks who built it were.
You can paint well, and you can buy a painting. You can share them both and enjoy doing so in different ways. And both will mean something to you personally in different ways.
This interface is wack. But yeah I suppose you're right, you can still change alignment, swap a single bar and change shocks in Street and either of those will have moderate impact to behavior that has to be tested and retested. I don't know that 20 year old me would have considered that "built" though. I just think the attitude is lame and it's better to break people of it sooner rather than later.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Same. I enjoy the build process to an extent. I enjoy driving and not being the shop for months on end more.
In reply to sfunk1x :
If you mean for autocross, "build" tends to mean, tune/test/re-tune/re-test over and over to the Nth degree. Some folks are better and more meticulous about that process within restrictive rules than others. Not to mention experience (and talent) to be able to tell what changes help and what changes don't and how conditions will affect changes.
I like a mix of both worlds. My MGB with 13B is, sorry to say, a project that I hope to finish soon - so built. My 2011 Mazda RX-8 is, for my taste, fast enough, lots of fun and did not break the bank. I like just getting into the drivers seat and not worrying if I will make it back home! $$$ being an issue, I wish I could spend more but I am happy. The solution is only 7-8 out of 10 but it's OK. Next step is some track time at the FIRM.
I buy my commuting vehicle new every 6-8 years, and I usually buy something relatively quick/sporty - because when commuting I prefer something totally reliable, trouble-free, comfortable, with all the modern amenities. And while people seem to think (currently) my GTI is a nice car, I wouldn't say anybody would be like "wow, that's so cool that you bought a GTI that performs well." Nor am I "proud" of the car in any read degree.
My project cars that I rebuilt totally myself, at a fraction of the cost of a new GTI, are the ones people seem impressed with - not because any of them are particularly amazing or rare cars, but because I built them. And I *am* pround of those, even if they're less reliable, not trouble-free, not necessarily comfortable, and don't have cool amenities.
I like nice cars, but I don't give anyone "props" for simply buying a nice/fast car. Though I can still tell them honestly "cool car" or enjoy seeing it. Anyone with money can do that, there's nothing special about it. This area is full of Ferraris and other exotics. They're cool to see but never do I think "wow, I really respect that guy for BUYING a Ferrari."
Nothing wrong with buying nice stuff - it's not a jealousy thing. If I had a bunch of money I'd buy super-nice stuff too and not "build" it (but would also still build stuff). But it's not something that makes me respect a person or that's person's abilities, them just buying something nice/fast/etc.
I will give more respect to the guy who buys a Ferrari and either commutes in it or takes it to the track. I give little respect to the guy who buys a McLaren and just drives it to cars and coffee and then puts it back in the garage. That's the guy who just bought it to show other people he's rich, IMO.
My favorite Instagram to follow (of people I don't know) is @briansquestionabledecisions - He has a Ferrari 308, with rally/AT tires on it and rack over the hatchback, and he drives all over the country, offroad, in the snow, adventuring and fixing things as they break. I'm sure the guy has a good amount of cash based on his other stuff, but he's out DOING stuff with his cool car. That's the kind of car person I respect. Or the guy on here that did the epic cross-country trip in a Porsche 996 or something, in bad weather in the middle of winter.
But, simply buying a nice/fast car new doesn't make a person "not" a car person by itself. Buying an amazing car and not knowing how to change the oil, or change a tire.....that makes one "not" a car person :)
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