Is the 1987 lotus excel a reliable and safe car?

Hi I am new to this forum so I'm not sure how things work here, but I have a question concerning the 1987 lotus excel.

I have found the car of my dreams, the interior, exterior, millage, price, engine, etc., however I am completely lost on knowing whether if it's really the one for me. I am 16 years old working to get my license and I am not sure if a classic car as my first car is a good idea. Don't get me wrong I love this car, but I don't want to have issues in the long run.

I have heard the saying about Lotus cars, lots of trouble, usually serious. Is this really true? Also I know that airbags were put into law in 1990s, so does this mean that there aren't any in this model? Additionally, I'll be driving this car when I'll be in university so I wouldn't want any trouble on a daily car. Is the excel a good daily car?

Here's the link for the car. I've been looking at this page all day everyday and I've noticed a couple things: the gearbox is automatic, but I thought the excel was only a manual car (does this mean that the original owner has tweaked a couple things?) And it says that it isn't registered, would that be an issue? I searched the internet and the answer to it being an issue is usually yes. Should I be concerned (ie. stolen car)?

Thank you so much for the help in advance :))

That is a really cool car! I love the color. Amazingly enough they did offer an automatic in the Excel. However... I think a vintage lotus as your first car and when going off to university would be a really tough experience. You're going to have to work on it. Most likely you'll have to work on it a lot. And they didn't make many of them so you'll probably have to wait for parts and if you're not doing it yourself there will be few mechanics able or willing to work on it. Still. It looks amazing doesn't it?!

In reply to dculberson :

Yeah it really is amazing. Thanks for being honest! What kind of work do you think I'd have to put into it? I am pretty handy and I am really quick learner when it comes to these kind of things, but I am in no way someone who knows how to repair a car. I wouldn't mind putting some work into it and I already have found a couple mechanics in my area who seem to know what they're doing with classics (they have some really cool ones like 1987 AC Cobra 427 Era or a Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Eleanor and they offer servicing for classics). Would it get expensive though? I got my parents approval to help pay for the car, but I don't think I can pay as much as I paid for the car in repairs. Thanks a lot again :)

1987 Lotus

"reliable" 

Absolutely not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you're looking for a trouble-free daily driver (particularly as a student) this is unequivocally one of the worst choices you could make. If it were a second car, sure, but as something you need to be dependable to get to classes and do your shopping? Definitely not. 

brandonsmash said:

1987 Lotus

"reliable" 

 

Absolutely not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you're looking for a trouble-free daily driver (particularly as a student) this is unequivocally one of the worst choices you could make. If it were a second car, sure, but as something you need to be dependable to get to classes and do your shopping? Definitely not. 

This is my thought EXACTLY.

In reply to brandonsmash :

why is it that unreliable? i saw some reasons from the other commentor, but what's your take?

what other similar classics would you recommend? i know older cars and trouble-free don't go well together, but an option that isn't too bad.

i wouldn't be using it as a daily in uni since the campus is really close to everything, but it would be for going long distances (+300km) and once im done being a student, then as a a daily driver.

thanks a lot for your honesty!

In reply to harmonicafly :

There's really not one single thing we could point to that would be unreliable.  A 40 year old Lotus is going to have SO many things that can and will go wrong.  Electrical, mechanical, you name it.  Beautiful car, but not ideal for a 16 year old.

You're far better off with a Honda Civic.  If you truly must have a classic sports car, NA or NB Miata is the droid you seek.

There is no such thing as a safe car from the '80's.  Airbags, crumple zones, collapsible steering columns, submarining engine, side impact door bars, ABS... pretty much NONE of these existed in 80's cars, and all of them exist in EVERY car now. 
 

As noted, an 80's Lotus will definitely need a lot of upkeep. 

Is this a canoe?  I think several of us have fallen for it. 

Lotus, turning owners into mechanics since the 1950s...

I disagree with SV rex, it's likely going to be a very safe car on account of it very likely not moving under its own power very often.

brandonsmash said:

1987 Lotus

"reliable" 

 

Absolutely not. Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you're looking for a trouble-free daily driver (particularly as a student) this is unequivocally one of the worst choices you could make. If it were a second car, sure, but as something you need to be dependable to get to classes and do your shopping? Definitely not. 

I think a Maserati BiTurbo would be more appropriate.

SV reX said:

Is this a canoe?  I think several of us have fallen for it. 

This happens quite a bit lately.

SV reX said:

There is no such thing as a safe car from the '80's.  Airbags, crumple zones, collapsible steering columns, submarining engine, side impact door bars, ABS... pretty much NONE of these existed in 80's cars, and all of them exist in EVERY car now. 
 

As noted, an 80's Lotus will definitely need a lot of upkeep. 

Collapsible steering columns became mandatory in the 60s. Crumple zones first started showing up in production cars earlier than that. I don't know about submarining engines specifically, but the 1989 Miata definitely had one. Side impact door bars are harder to identify but they were definitely around in 1990. ABS was very much in its infancy at the end of the decade.

The Excel, however, was built to be as light as possible and without the resources of a major automaker for any safety items beyond what was required at the time. 

As for reliability, that's also a matter of resources and weight. Lotus didn't have the money or people to do a lot of durability testing. Many parts are adapted from other cars. A lot of it is hand-built. To keep the car light, parts were often under built and require frequent maintenance. Corrosion is also a major problem for them, which can cause both structural problems and also endless electrical problems as grounds get dodgy. The wiring harness is also likely to suffer from corroding connectors and chafing. 

What other classics do you like? Most of us are over 16, so what you consider classics might be just be slightly older cars to us:) 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think sir misspelled "pretty new cars" when you wrote "slightly older cars".

What do most young guys in your town drive? 18,000€ seems like a fair chunk of cash, so will there be cash for registration, insurance, gas, tires, and brakes? There are many young guys who can afford the purchase but can't handle the rest and that dream car becomes a nightmare.

TravisTheHuman said:

SV reX said:

Is this a canoe?  I think several of us have fallen for it. 

This happens quite a bit lately.

Care to speculate the purpose of it in this case? 

If it was a second car or hobby where there's other transportation options and this can sit in a garage, I say why not, but for 18k Euros and talk of being a student I think I'd go find something more modern and appropriate for the situation and possibly French.

The Excel seems like an 80's Supra made out of fiberglass with a Lotus engine.  Kind of hard to get excited about from here but to each their own.  Why not get a TVR at that point?

Snrub said:

TravisTheHuman said:

SV reX said:

Is this a canoe?  I think several of us have fallen for it. 

This happens quite a bit lately.

Care to speculate the purpose of it in this case? 

Just to generate posts... I really dont understand it.  Look at most of the canoe posts on the forum...

Here's a similar thread to this one  https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/fun-cheap-reliable-daily-thats-good-on-gas/274223/page1/

Even if this one is real, its sad that bots have become so pervasive that we have to question whether content is real here.

 

Could totally be real, I would've been very tempted to buy one of these as a first car

But the "lots of trouble, usually serious" joke is a decent rule of thumb for any Lotus older than an S1 Elise. In earlier times Lotus had vintage British car electrical systems, seemed to have a company policy to fit cars with the most fragile gearboxes they could find, fitted the cars with engines that ranged from "kind of finicky with rare parts" to "a hand grenade with the pin pulled", and that was all before age was a factor.

In terms of crash safety, they're not only total crap by today's standards but were not very good by the standards of their time. In most pre-S1 Lotii you sat on the side of a folded backbone frame surrounded by a floppy fibreglass shell. It was extremely light which was great for performance, but occupants had to be willing to die like real men. Even S1/S2 Elise crash safety leaves a lot to be desired compared to contemporary cars. Lotus has hardly ever had an interest in making crash safety better than legally necessary.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Can we actually find contemporary crash testing results for this car?  There's a lot of conjecture going on in this thread... The Excel, if Wikipedia is to be believed (and I know to take it with a grain of salt) has either a Toyota W58 or ZF auto for transmissions.  Are those "the most fragile they could find"?  The interior is full of Toyota stuff.  This was a period where Lotus was trying to be more mainstream and financially viable which meant less warranty work and repairs that were free to customers. 

Do I want to be in an accident in an Excel?  No, not particularly, but this whole "they're made out of napalm and match sticks" thing seems a little over the top.  We should really get an Excel owner or two in this thread before losing our collective cool over it.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

The Excel does have an uncharacteristically good set of transmission options (this one's an auto, but both are pretty reliable) however it still has a finicky engine made of unobtanium parts (Lotus' own 2.2L 912, rapid bottom-end bearing wear is a known issue especially with the original bearings) and even though it looks like an ordinary '80s car inside, it does have the backbone chassis + FG shell construction:

thanks everyone for the comments and advice. i've decided to steer away from lotus due to multiple reasons such as frequent repairs, difficulty to find parts and the fact that there are very few in the market. my idea of classic is 80s and 90s since i love the look and feel of older cars but i'd still like to be on the safe side (as mentioned before airbags, abs and new safety technology in general)

i've searched and i found the mitsubishi starion 1986, but i've primarily been looking at corvette c4. it's got quite a similar look to the excel but it's wayyyy more common.

i found this one, the price is a bit steeper, but i'd rather pay more upfront than repair all the time and try to find rare parts. however it's from 1986, it does have abs but no mention of airbags. i've heard that corvette added airbags to their cars 1990/95. in case it doesn't have them, it might be a deal breaker (though im a cautious driver and don't road rage, you can never know who else is on the road with you). it looks good and from the description, it looks like it's been maintained well and all records are in place. i'm quite fond of this one.

i found this from 1993. again slightly more expensive, but im just considering. it looks like it has driver airbag (and a cd player which would be amazing for my cd collection), one previous owner and traceable history, but the website kinda looks sketchy. and is a convertible easy to maintain? where i live at  the moment it is quite rainy and humid (90% humidity average in winter and 77% yearly average + 900mm of rain yearly). im guessing that would affect the hood,

why specifically these types of cars? i always have had an affinity for 80s looking slightly angular cars and the leather and wood interior, but now i've started appreciating them also from the inside. i can't really explain it. 

why the price? though i am planning on getting it before i move out to uni, i still plan on using it afterwards. best case scenario i can keep it as a daily driver for a couple years. how long should i expect though? with good maintenance and not doing anything crazy with the car, how long should it last? the price i'm willing to pay really depends on how long i'll be able to use it and if it doesn't have issues often.

i haven't found anyone that's really enthusiastic about cars around me. there is one guy at school who loves diesel cars, but has a really bad vibe and another is really fond of bikes but i'm guessing that's whole different thing.

thanks again for everyone's input :)

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Seriously?

Take a look at that spine frame picture Gameboy posted. The driver literally sits outside ANY metal structure and is then surrounded by glass and fiberglass shrapnel. The body is fiberglass. (Old, thin, fragile fiberglass).  So are the doors. There's not even a metal floor pan. The "firewall" is constructed of cardboard. 

This isn't rocket science. We don't need crash testing, engineers, or Excel owners to tell us how it will perform when an SUV runs over it.  Heck, a Miata will reduce it to dust. 
 

This isn't conjecture or fear mongering.  It's simply how they are built. 

In reply to harmonicafly :

C4s aren't bad mechanically and parts aren't hard to find for a car of that age. They have an odd modular true unibody/backbone hybrid frame and got a good crash rating back when the car was released...that may not rank well compared to the road-going APCs of recent years, but at least it was good for its time and puts some structural parts between occupants and the outside world. The only reliability problems I know about with them are that they need modifications to avoid overheating, and they're prone to some weird electrical problems...Pete Gossett on this forum could tell you more about that.

In reply to harmonicafly :

There is ZERO possibility anyone can project how long ANY car will last. 
 

I have an original unmodified Model A.  It's nearly 100 years old and still drives just like Henry Ford intended.  But that won't help you with your car search.