Bargain of the day if you're specifically looking for a car to stuff an LS1 into.
Money-pit of the day if you want to keep the rotary. Owners put them up for sale for low low prices when the engines set one foot in the grave.
Bargain of the day if you're specifically looking for a car to stuff an LS1 into.
Money-pit of the day if you want to keep the rotary. Owners put them up for sale for low low prices when the engines set one foot in the grave.
aircooled wrote:Harvey wrote:Certainly, but I believe that will tell if it's effectively dead, not if it's about to die. Rotaries are great, but when they go, they can go fast. (someone else can confirm this, I am not a full expert on rotaries)aircooled wrote:Test the compression before you buy?Harvey wrote: ...Looking around in my area there are some 2004s going for $4k with 100k miles on them... I'm kinda regretting selling mine.You are definitely rolling the dice with a 100k on one. A new motor will be at least as expensive as the car. Great car though.
Not really sure I've heard that. If it has below spec compression it might still run, but be going out. There are gradations. It's not just good/bad. I mean, once it gets into bad territory it's not gonna get better and will probably die, but if you have good compression there isn't any reason to believe it is on the way out. I'm not an expert either, but that's what I've heard.
GameboyRMH wrote: Bargain of the day if you're specifically looking for a car to stuff an LS1 into. Money-pit of the day if you want to keep the rotary. Owners put them up for sale for low low prices when the engines set one foot in the grave.
I like how it's a bargain with an LS swap, but a money pit if you try to keep the original motor. Even if the rotary is a bad deal and can cause problems isn't it a money pit both ways?
Harvey wrote:GameboyRMH wrote: Bargain of the day if you're specifically looking for a car to stuff an LS1 into. Money-pit of the day if you want to keep the rotary. Owners put them up for sale for low low prices when the engines set one foot in the grave.I like how it's a bargain with an LS swap, but a money pit if you try to keep the original motor. Even if the rotary is a bad deal and can cause problems isn't it a money pit both ways?
Both a swap and a rebuild will consume a lot of money up front, but a rotary's wear rate and inefficiency is a gift that keeps on giving 
If anyone nearby to me gets a manual one to do a swap on, let me know- I for one would love to have the Renesis to rebuild and have as a potential engine swap of my own. 
I think they're a bargain. The issues seen in the early cars are a bit overblown in my limited experience. My brother has had an '05 since new and all it's needed is plugs, BHR coils, rear shocks, and a starter. The main reason it needed a new starter is due to weak coils from the factory and mostly due to him being lazy and not changing the plugs when it desperately needed them. Everything was easy to work on and new coils made a HUGE difference in low end power and overall performance.
I'm really tempted to get one as my fun car since I'm already familiar with them, they're cheap, they handle great and they love being flogged endlessly.
Harvey wrote:aircooled wrote:Not really sure I've heard that. If it has below spec compression it might still run, but be going out. There are gradations. It's not just good/bad. I mean, once it gets into bad territory it's not gonna get better and will probably die, but if you have good compression there isn't any reason to believe it is on the way out. I'm not an expert either, but that's what I've heard.Harvey wrote:Certainly, but I believe that will tell if it's effectively dead, not if it's about to die. Rotaries are great, but when they go, they can go fast. (someone else can confirm this, I am not a full expert on rotaries)aircooled wrote:Test the compression before you buy?Harvey wrote: ...Looking around in my area there are some 2004s going for $4k with 100k miles on them... I'm kinda regretting selling mine.You are definitely rolling the dice with a 100k on one. A new motor will be at least as expensive as the car. Great car though.
Good compression is no guarantee that the engine will last a long time as it could be approaching an acute failure point (sheared apex seals, etc.) typically due to improper fuel delivery or overheating. However, low compression does assure that the engine isn’t long for this world.
As special tool is required to test the compression on these types of engines so even after 28 years and 528,000 miles of continuously driving rotary powered cars, I still just paid to have it done which costs around $300. Getting valid compression readings requires both having the correct RPM’s and adjusting for density altitude which I imagine most mechanics don’t have the means to do very accurately.
Aircooled happened to be onboard my RX-8 with me the first time it signaled it was nearing its end. Hot day + car heavily loaded + long uphill grade = sustained high torque condition. If you’ve ever been on a full displacement hulled boat (ferry, barge, etc.) while it pushed its way through good sized swells, you know exactly what it feels like…a rhythmic kind of longitudinal surging and restraining motion possibly caused by some kind of harmonic interaction between the blow-by gasses and the exhaust system.
Sorry to talk above my pay grade, I don’t know what the underlining physics are, my point is that I distinctly felt it coming about six months / 12,000 miles before the end (ask Aircooled, I was flailing around scrambling to down shift and turn off the AC while chanting oh E36 M3, oh E36 M3 even though no one else in the car had any idea something was wrong)
Bottom line, I’d want to subject any previously enjoyed rotary powered car to the conditions described above and feel for the signature pushing through swells sensation along with getting the most accurate compression test possible before risking my money.
Think about it, who parts with a perfectly good RX-8??? For every owner that legitimately just needs a larger car or something, there are ten that know the engine is going and want to get out while the car is worth more than scrap value.
Mazdax605 wrote:Furious_E wrote:So you're putting down a whole engine that you've never even experienced based on some MPG numbers, and a torque rating? Okay. How many books do you poo-poo just by the cover art?wlkelley3 wrote: In reply to Furious_E: Apparently haven't driven one in anger. Blast to drive and that 9200rpm redline is fun. My RX8 is quicker that my Miata and my wife's V6 Sonata. I know not saying much but keeps up with bigger engine cars. I look at the MPGs as tomtomgt356 puts it. Terrible mpg's compared to a car but better than a full size truck. Unless talking about a diesel or EcoBoost.I've never driven a rotary period, so take everything I've said with a huge grain of salt, but on paper they really don't hold much appeal to me. If someone wants to let me drive their car to try and change my mind I certainly won't complain
Look, all I'm saying is that the rotary represents a set of compromises that, on paper at least, is unappealing to me. Clearly I'm not alone here otherwise the value of these cars wouldn't be what it is today. Ive driven enough cars to know what traits I do and don't like in an engine. To use your own analogy, if I have no interest in the subject matter why would I read the book?
I think my fallacy in this discussion is attempting to apply practical constraints to a vehicle that is in essence being discussed as a toy. I'm sure they're fun in their own way, and maybe the rotary would speak to me in the same way it does to you if I drove one, but given the choice I tend to think i would prefer something else. But as stated above, to each his own.
Furious_E wrote:Mazdax605 wrote:Look, all I'm saying is that the rotary represents a set of compromises that, on paper at least, is unappealing to me. Clearly I'm not alone here otherwise the value of these cars wouldn't be what it is today. Ive driven enough cars to know what traits I do and don't like in an engine. To use your own analogy, if I have no interest in the subject matter why would I read the book? I think my fallacy in this discussion is attempting to apply practical constraints to a vehicle that is in essence being discussed as a toy. I'm sure they're fun in their own way, and maybe the rotary would speak to me in the same way it does to you if I drove one, but given the choice I tend to think i would prefer something else. But as stated above, to each his own.Furious_E wrote:So you're putting down a whole engine that you've never even experienced based on some MPG numbers, and a torque rating? Okay. How many books do you poo-poo just by the cover art?wlkelley3 wrote: In reply to Furious_E: Apparently haven't driven one in anger. Blast to drive and that 9200rpm redline is fun. My RX8 is quicker that my Miata and my wife's V6 Sonata. I know not saying much but keeps up with bigger engine cars. I look at the MPGs as tomtomgt356 puts it. Terrible mpg's compared to a car but better than a full size truck. Unless talking about a diesel or EcoBoost.I've never driven a rotary period, so take everything I've said with a huge grain of salt, but on paper they really don't hold much appeal to me. If someone wants to let me drive their car to try and change my mind I certainly won't complain
I’ve logged about 270 miles on S2000’s and I agree that they’re one of the closest comparisons available.
Realize that the RX-8 accomplishes this similarity while providing twice as many seats and I think it’s reasonable to attribute the achievement to its rotary engine.
Different strokes and all of that…I absolutely loved mine - envied no one – would have happily driven it forever if not for the disappointing longevity and high replacement cost of its engine.
Take care, Brett
The S2000 is a convertible and has "Honda" on it, too.
I loved driving my RX-8. Like I said, get a 2009 or later and avoid the oiling and other issues that were cleared up in the later model cars.
Edit: At least two people named "Brett" like rotaries.
I love my '09, haven't had any problems with it's low mileage engine (under 20k). I'm pretty anal about maintenance, checking oil, premix, making sure it sees high revs, etc... I never want to get rid of it, and just today i got home slightly upset that the drive had ended. That was after taking the long way home.
That being said, I would be really hesitant about buying a used one. I got mine new and i am 100% certain it has never ran low on oil, never overheated, never been hacked up by some aspiring drifter, etc... I want to keep mine for as long as i have a driver's license, but i don't want a second one. I wouldn't mind an RX7 someday, but i have exactly as many Mazda's as I have space for at the moment.
Brett_Murphy wrote: At least two people named "Brett" like rotaries.
Sorry, this damn thing keeps falling off
okay, so what's a fresh renesis cost anyway?
RX Reven' wrote:Harvey wrote:Good compression is no guarantee that the engine will last a long time as it could be approaching an acute failure point (sheared apex seals, etc.) typically due to improper fuel delivery or overheating. However, low compression does assure that the engine isn’t long for this world. As special tool is required to test the compression on these types of engines so even after 28 years and 528,000 miles of continuously driving rotary powered cars, I still just paid to have it done which costs around $300. Getting valid compression readings requires both having the correct RPM’s and adjusting for density altitude which I imagine most mechanics don’t have the means to do it accurately. .... Think about it, who parts with a perfectly good RX-8??? For every owner that legitimately just needs a larger car or something, there are ten that know the engine is going and want to get out while the car is worth more than scrap value.aircooled wrote:Not really sure I've heard that. If it has below spec compression it might still run, but be going out. There are gradations. It's not just good/bad. I mean, once it gets into bad territory it's not gonna get better and will probably die, but if you have good compression there isn't any reason to believe it is on the way out. I'm not an expert either, but that's what I've heard.Harvey wrote:Certainly, but I believe that will tell if it's effectively dead, not if it's about to die. Rotaries are great, but when they go, they can go fast. (someone else can confirm this, I am not a full expert on rotaries)aircooled wrote:Test the compression before you buy?Harvey wrote: ...Looking around in my area there are some 2004s going for $4k with 100k miles on them... I'm kinda regretting selling mine.You are definitely rolling the dice with a 100k on one. A new motor will be at least as expensive as the car. Great car though.
People get rid of them because they're afraid it will blow up, but I think in a bunch of cases people don't have any clue it is going down and just dump it because they are afraid of it.
I agree it's a gamble though, but with prices as low as they are it's worth taking the risk in some cases.
Don't forget the transmissions suck too. I've know 4 people with rx8 and 4 people with 2nd gear failures on gen 1 trans.
Mazda has gone and given a 8year 100k mile warranty on the engine the reason for that was because of complaints of early engine failure which were somewhat warranted. The motor naturally burns oil and careless owners can run low. Also if the car is started and not let to run for at least 10 minutes it can hydrolock. Even if properly cared for the main seals can go between 60-100k miles. That being said the motor is rebuildable although the parts will run you $1500 or you can get a factory rebuilt engine for around 2k. I've read about reliability issues on the factory rebuild engines though.
Do engine failures really happen all that often or is that just perception? I ask this only because I've owned other cars that, after reading the internet, I was sure would fall apart at a stiff breeze. Had a 2G DSM. No crankwalk. Tons over other problems because sports car built to budget, but the crank stayed right in place. Also owned an '01 v6 Accord and that auto trans lasted til 250000 until I totaled the thing. Makes me curious about the actual failure rate compared to perceived failure rate.
A buddy of mine that scours the auctions buying up Miatas was just telling me he keeps seeing RX8s crossing the line right around $1000 a piece with little to no damage.
I thought there wasn't a kit to swap an LSx into one of these? That there's some issue that's hard to overcome?
They're a nice package, but the lack of torque would really bother me for street driving. I've instructed in several of them and they're a light, tossable well handling car that just seems like it can barely get out of its own way...
In reply to docwyte:
Torque isnt a problem with the way they are geared. At least the 2009+ versions. You won't be pulling trailers, but it'll push you into the seat.
The torque aspect is really only an issue in stop and go traffic or if you're into passing in sixth gear. Otherwise you just rev it up and the power is there. This is only for the 1st gen versions, after they revised it they changed the gearing.
I test drive one years ago. It did feel gutless to me. But I was coming from mainly V8 pony cars and trucks. I really wouldn't mind one, but the rumors of engine failure scare me away. Double so on a cheap one.
To me a rotary engine feels like a two stroke dirt bike. Weak on the bottom end, but rev the crap out of it and there's plenty of power. Going to look at an R3 today.
docwyte wrote: I thought there wasn't a kit to swap an LSx into one of these? That there's some issue that's hard to overcome?
Here's a kit to get the engine to bolt up, but you need to change from electric to hydraulic PS:
http://www.v8roadsters.com/rx8-lsx-mounting-kit/
For the V8 swap, I think there will be issues with getting the gauges working, as the RX8 is all CAN bus as far as I know. Everything else is pretty much just pay money, replace otherwise good parts, add labour and eventually you'll have a running car.
IMHO, engine swaps rarely make sense from a purely financial/performance standpoint, since for the cost of doing the swap right, you could have gotten a C5 Corvette, which will be faster overall. Now, that said, you're getting something unique, not otherwise available on the used market, so if that's what you're after, then great.
I love my R3, but around town, driving normally, the engine's quite underwhelming. You've got to rev it to understand, feel the power and fall in love.
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