Jackpot! Manual steering rack!

Figured I'd stop by the pick n pull today and what should I find but a manual rack and pinion for the RX-7. If memory serves, any second-gen FC rack will bolt right int my '88 Turbo II. Am I right, or merely delusional?

Not sure about the compatibility, but why increase the steering ratio?

It is surprisingly easy to depower the rack that is in there. It feels awesome too!

I have had power, de-powered, and manual racks. The depowered is by far the best!

You just have to take the rack apart (easy) and grind off the seals. Then put some grease in tehre and plug the hose holes. If you are feeling really awesome, you can weld up the valve assembly on the pinion.

There is a how to on RX7 club if you search for it. It was more work to get the rack in and out than it was to do teh depowering.

P.S. I think all the racks are interchangeable. What ratio did you get? I think there are 2 manual racks. 1 of them is like 20:1 ratio!

Rob

My Civic has manual steering, I thought I wanted the better road feel, but having driven a Civic wiith power steering of the same vintage...it's only slightly better feel with manual steering. For parking? Rather have the power. If I was racing my Civic only? Probably go manual for the lack of complexitiy and not having to worry about 1 more item breaking down.

This car is street legal, but almost never street driven. I am familiar with the de-powering, and there is a very nice how-to video on the Miata rack (on Flyin' Miata's site, maybe?) I've absorbed all that information.

Here's the thing: The Turbo II power rack has the quickest of all RX-7 steering, and hence the de-powered rack requires fairly high effort. I'm trying valiantly to keep this car something that my wife can drive, since she enjoys hooning (or zipping down the dragstrip) in it at least as much as I do. I think the T2 ratio is something like 15:1, other RX-7 PS racks around 16:1, and the manual rack around 20:1, I found an article giving all the ratios a while back, but I can't find it now. It also said that you shouldn't try de-powering the T2 rack because the ratio is too low. I've driven it short distances with the PS belt off, and it's no fun at low speed. I'm sure it would be better if it was properly de-powered, but I doubt my wife would be comfortable with it.

So, I'm gonna try the manual rack. If it bolts right in....

As far as the "why," my aim is to forge ahead, time and money permitting, and install a FMIC and a bigger turbo. I've already done the battery relo, and this seems like a logical step. The car's been tootling around with bigger injectors and a Haltech for years, running near 18 psi.

It felt bad without the belt on because you were still pushing the fluid around in it.

DaveEstey wrote: It felt bad without the belt on because you were still pushing the fluid around in it.

Yes, I understand that, but how much better would it be properly de-powered? Easy enough for my petite little wifey?

She'll kick my butt if she sees this!

Be sure to grab the clamps that go over the manual rack that hold it onto the subframe, they are different than the PS ones.

Also, remember to remove the clamp bolts from the bottom. You can see the nuts on the topside, but trying to remove the nuts is not good, as they are spot welded to the clamps.

weedburner wrote: Be sure to grab the clamps that go over the manual rack that hold it onto the subframe, they are different than the PS ones. Also, remember to remove the clamp bolts from the bottom. You can see the nuts on the topside, but trying to remove the nuts is not good, as they are spot welded to the clamps.

Haha! This info is useless to me NOW! Where the heck were you a few hours ago when I was at the junkyard in the (thankfully empty) engine compartment beating my head on six readily accessible but impossible to turn 17mm nuts!!!

Fortunately, the light bulb went on after a few frustrating minutes and I discovered the bolt heads were also very accessible from underneath the car. And yes, I got the clamps. Thanks!

1988RedT2 wrote: Figured I'd stop by the pick n pull today and what should I find but a manual rack and pinion for the RX-7. If memory serves, any second-gen FC rack will bolt right int my '88 Turbo II. Am I right, or merely delusional?

It will bolt in, I guess, if you wanted crappy steering.

wvumtnbkr wrote: You just have to take the rack apart (easy) and grind off the seals. Then put some grease in tehre and plug the hose holes. If you are feeling really awesome, you can weld up the valve assembly on the pinion.

Or you take the lines off, cut the ram lines, spin the rack back and forth a bunch of times to pump the fluid out, loop the ram lines together with a piece of hose, and you're done. If you wanted to, you could plug the pressure and return lines.

I depowered my FC rack this way. Yes, it's awesome.

wvumtnbkr wrote: There is a how to on RX7 club if you search for it. It was more work to get the rack in and out than it was to do teh depowering. Rob

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=440198

Missed this the first time 'round:

1988RedT2 wrote: Here's the thing: The Turbo II power rack has the quickest of all RX-7 steering, and hence the de-powered rack requires fairly high effort. I'm trying valiantly to keep this car something that my wife can drive, since she enjoys hooning (or zipping down the dragstrip) in it at least as much as I do. I think the T2 ratio is something like 15:1, other RX-7 PS racks around 16:1, and the manual rack around 20:1,

There are three racks in the US - three-port power, two-port power, and manual. N/A and Turbo II got the 3-port power, which is found in S4s and is the quickest ratio of the three. The 2-port rack is in S5s (like most FC stuff, there is series overlap, but I forget which way) and is slightly slower.

My steering isn't very heavy at all. I have the 3-port power unit in a ~2500-2550lb car. I've driven power steering cars with heavier steering.

Knurled wrote: It will bolt in, I guess, if you wanted crappy steering.

I guess I just don't understand this sentiment. Exactly how would it be "crappy steering", other than taking another turn or so lock-to-lock?

I guess the question I'd most like answered with regard to de-powering the existing rack is this: How much easier, in terms of a percentage, is the properly de-powered rack to steer than the same rack with the PS pump belt removed?

Why the heck would you take a "good" power rack and destroy it to make it manual if there is a manual rack available. I can see it if his rack were leaking but why waste a good rack. changing ratio seems logical to me if he wants the wife to be able to drive it. Heck the ratio difference would barley be noticed in an autocross Oh i have to turn the wheel 95 deg instead on 87 oh....

1988RedT2 wrote:

Knurled wrote: It will bolt in, I guess, if you wanted crappy steering.

I guess I just don't understand this sentiment. Exactly how would it be "crappy steering", other than taking another turn or so lock-to-lock? I guess the question I'd most like answered with regard to de-powering the existing rack is this: How much easier, in terms of a percentage, is the properly de-powered rack to steer than the same rack with the PS pump belt removed?

It depends on the ratio difference. Any manual racks available for my car have a ridiculous lock to lock count.

The power racks are much better, and effort is not bad at all if properly de-powered. (And by properly i mean remove and plug all the lines, tear down the rack, remove all the seals, then re-pack with grease.)

I had an '87 TII with a manual rack, and the ratio was abyssal compared to the ratio in my '88 GXL. If I drove them back to back, it felt like I was flailing around to get the turbo car to go where I wanted it to go, while steering the '88 was instinctive.

Your tires are also going to have a lot to do with how the steering feels. I'm certainly not a weakling, but with sticky 225s on my TII, I noticed the extra effort required to parallel park the car since I was turning the wheel a lot when the car wasn't moving. With all season 205s on there it really didn't matter.

I've also driven an '90 GTU with a properly de-powered power steering rack, and it felt great. In my opinion, it seems that the happy medium would be a de-powered s5 rack in any car.

here are the ratios: Manual 20:1 Ratio S4 power 15.2:1 Ratio S5 power 17.4:1 Ratio

1988RedT2 wrote: I guess the question I'd most like answered with regard to de-powering the existing rack is this: How much easier, in terms of a percentage, is the properly de-powered rack to steer than the same rack with the PS pump belt removed?

berkeleying LOTS. A properly de-powered s5 rack feels much like a slightly stiffer manual rack, while the effort required to steer a power rack with no belt feels like you're pushing on the front of the car from outside with one arm tied behind your back to get it to go where you want it to go.

Brett_Murphy wrote:

1988RedT2 wrote: I guess the question I'd most like answered with regard to de-powering the existing rack is this: How much easier, in terms of a percentage, is the properly de-powered rack to steer than the same rack with the PS pump belt removed?

berkeleying LOTS. A properly de-powered s5 rack feels much like a slightly stiffer manual rack, while the effort required to steer a power rack with no belt feels like you're pushing on the front of the car from outside with one arm tied behind your back to get it to go where you want it to go.

Thank you! I think that's the most informative post here!

44Dwarf wrote: Heck the ratio difference would barley be noticed in an autocross Oh i have to turn the wheel 95 deg instead on 87 oh....

The difference between 20:1 and 15:1 is a lot more significant than that.

BTW - I note with interest that a late model 650i has less than two turns lock to lock... in other words, the exact opposite of an E30, which has horrendously slow steering (and the only thing I don't like about E30s...)

uh-oh. I said something that might be useful to somebody. I'd better cover my butt:

YMMV, this is just an opinion, make sure you try it for yourself, it was broken when I found it... uhhh.. sunspots.

Aw dude, sunspots