Jeep lug bolts... forking WHY?!

I own a 2016 Cherokee Trailhawk. All things considered, I really like it: It's comfortable, easy to drive, and gets me to all the off-road places I want to go. I've used the rear locker on a number of occasions, too.

However, it's just about to hit 100k miles; I bought it with about 85 on it. At 100k I like to do a suspension refresh, which in this case means Bilstein shocks and new front LCAs/bushings. Cool. I put it up on the Quickjacks last weekend to at least do the rear.

But wait, what's this? The Internet tells me I should use a 19mm socket to get the wheels off, but a 19 doesn't fit. Nor does a 20. A 21 fits, but sloppily. 

That's when I discover that not only does the Jeep use lug bolts (not lug nuts), they're not even one-piece! They're these stupid two-piece jobbies with unremovable chrome "beauty caps" on top. It is evidently a known failure mode that over time and with any exposure to water, the caps get moisture underneath and swell; this renders the bolts unremovable with standard tools. What the actual fork?

Of 20 lug bolts, ALL 20 of mine had this failure mode. I spent quite a while yesterday hammering a 19mm socket onto each lug bolt one-by-one, removing them with an impact wrench, and replacing them with one-piece bolts. 

This is the stupidest design I've ever seen. Why would you even use lug bolts? Lug nut technology has been perfected over the past 120 years. On top of that, what motherforking dipshirt thought this would be acceptable on a vehicle that sees off-road use? I'm grateful at least that I discovered this in my garage: If I'd had a flat on a trail, I would have been entirely unable to remove the wheel and tire and would have been THOROUGHLY hosed. 

What an absolutely monumental bad design decision this was on Jeep's part. 

All this and I still haven't even touched the suspension I set out to refresh! 

brandonsmash said:

I own a 2016 Cherokee Trailhawk. All things considered, I really like it: It's comfortable, easy to drive, and gets me to all the off-road places I want to go. I've used the rear locker on a number of occasions, too.

However, it's just about to hit 100k miles; I bought it with about 85 on it. At 100k I like to do a suspension refresh, which in this case means Bilstein shocks and new front LCAs/bushings. Cool. I put it up on the Quickjacks last weekend to at least do the rear.

But wait, what's this? The Internet tells me I should use a 19mm socket to get the wheels off, but a 19 doesn't fit. Nor does a 20. A 21 fits, but sloppily. 

That's when I discover that not only does the Jeep use lug bolts (not lug nuts), they're not even one-piece! They're these stupid two-piece jobbies with unremovable chrome "beauty caps" on top. It is evidently a known failure mode that over time and with any exposure to water, the caps get moisture underneath and swell; this renders the bolts unremovable with standard tools. What the actual fork?

Of 20 lug bolts, ALL 20 of mine had this failure mode. I spent quite a while yesterday hammering a 19mm socket onto each lug bolt one-by-one, removing them with an impact wrench, and replacing them with one-piece bolts. 

This is the stupidest design I've ever seen. Why would you even use lug bolts? Lug nut technology has been perfected over the past 120 years. On top of that, what motherforking dipshirt thought this would be acceptable on a vehicle that sees off-road use? I'm grateful at least that I discovered this in my garage: If I'd had a flat on a trail, I would have been entirely unable to remove the wheel and tire and would have been THOROUGHLY hosed. 

What an absolutely monumental bad design decision this was on Jeep's part. 

All this and I still haven't even touched the suspension I set out to refresh! 

You need half size sockets for those turds.

Most European vehicles have bolts and it probably says Made in Italy on the doorjamb.

If you've ever fought tapered-seat lug nuts that were damaged from overtightening or just wear and couldn't be accurately torqued anymore, or worse had been narrowed so much that they bottomed out against the hub before they tightened the wheel down, you'd want to make lug nuts illegal for safety reasons.

Porsche engineers are clearly smoking the same crack...

There are legit reasons why...  buying or fabricating a wheel hanger stud goes a long way towards keeping your cool.

Or stud conversion.  Not to be confused with (never mind!).

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Yeah, but that's from operator error. Those studs are a straight up design flaw. Which reminds me that lug nuts often have the same, E36 M3ty 2 peice design, with the exact same design flaw.

Appleseed said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Yeah, but that's from operator error. Those studs are a straight up design flaw. Which reminds me that lug nuts often have the same, E36 M3ty 2 peice design, with the exact same design flaw.

I was going to say this, the bolt vs nut thing doesn't really play into the stupid chrome covers that the OE choose to put on. My last ford truck had them and the dodge before that had them. Stupid.

Straight from stellantis. Unfortunately at the domestic dealer I Unfortunately spent a year at I was literally the only person in the whole shop that actually looked up torque specs and used a torque wrench.  So based off of my tiny little sample section them studs been over tightened a lot.  Makes sense if they are all beat up too.

Ford owners laughing...

Blame the bean counters.  Those lug bolts are cheaper per unit than a regular lug bolt.  That is the only reason those exist.  And when you hundreds of thousands of those bolts, pennies matter.  As they say, pretty soon it is real money.

Note, this does not mean I approve of those bolts at all.  

I own a set of half-size wheel nut sockets because of the nuts on my Escape doing this.

I do agree fully that capped lug anything needs to die in all the fire.

Fought them on my. old Jaguar XJR too.  The worst.

Those capped lugs have been pissing people off since the 80's. 

I just went throught this on a 95 Wrangler I picked up. 

I tossed them in the trash as soon as I got them off so I wouldn't be tempted to use then again.

order a set of 1 piece open ended  off Amazon for like $20, but mine where the chrome capped lug nuts.

My 1996 Cherokee has this exact same issue. The ones with the "beauty caps" take an SAE socket and after removing they take  a Metric socket.

My 2008 Grand Caravan had capped lug nuts.  Not as bad as bolts, but close.  I had the same stripping issue and ended up buying a new set from Rock Auto.  I always use a torque wrench when tightening, but I'm guessing many shop wrenches don't.  The 2017 GC has them as well, but so far they haven't been buggered up. 

Those caps are a pain in the ass. I had 16 of 20 give me a problem the first time I took them off my Renegade. It's also a little bit of a pain putting the wheels back on so I got a couple 5 inch long bolts and cut the heads off to guide them on and start a couple bolts. 

The capped nuts are all a huge pain.  But personally, I've never understood the fervent hate some people have for wheel bolts instead of studs.  They're different, but as long as the wheels fit the hubs well, I've never found them to be much of a pain. 

I do hate those capped bolts and nuts. But I'll say this, I've probably removed tens of thousands of them with a pretty low failure rate (where the nut wasn't FUBAR before it came to me). I use the correct size socked from a quality manufacturer and they come off. If the chrome cap comes off, the 19mm nut now uses an 18mm socket. It looks like a number of the lug bolts above didn't have the socked more than 1/2 way engaged before the impact was used. 
Like I said, they suck and are stupid. On my vehicles I would usually swap them out with aftermarket lug nuts.

The hate for the chrome capped lugs is entirely a rust belt phenomenon. 

I have removed 20 year old chrome capped Ford lugs that have not swelled, but we don't have road salt here.

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:

Those capped lugs have been pissing people off since the 80's. 

Let's bump that back at least another decade.  My lovely 1976 Oldsmobile Cutlass had some beautiful factory wheels with steel lug nuts capped by a shiny chrome/stainless cover.  Looked nice.  Sucked when they got beat up and the were all but impossible to get off.

The bolt vs nut thing is really another matter. 

Now that you mention it, my 1973 Volvo 1800ES has capped lug nuts. 

I am somewhat ambivalent when it comes to lug bolts vs. studs/nuts.  Most of my modern cars have the bolts, so I've gotten used to them.   One downside to bolts is those usually mean the brake rotor will have a small screw to keep it in place... which invariably rusts and becomes a joy to remove during brake jobs.

In reply to bludroptop :

I've never had a problem with these. 
 

Or wheel bolts. The wheel sits on the hub while you line up the holes. Aligning wheels on studs is frustrating sometimes as well. 
 

Chrome caps can die in a fire. I've fought the Ford ones at least. The worst. 

Trent said:

The hate for the chrome capped lugs is entirely a rust belt phenomenon. 

I have removed 20 year old chrome capped Ford lugs that have not swelled, but we don't have road salt here.

This.  It has nothing to do with torque and everything to do with two pieces of unprotected steel that make a wonderful place for moisture and salt to sit and stay.

See also: Toyota origami-fold truck frames that rust heavily

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Trent said:

The hate for the chrome capped lugs is entirely a rust belt phenomenon. 

I have removed 20 year old chrome capped Ford lugs that have not swelled, but we don't have road salt here.

This.  It has nothing to do with torque and everything to do with two pieces of unprotected steel that make a wonderful place for moisture and salt to sit and stay.

See also: Toyota origami-fold truck frames that rust heavily

Also torque where there is no salt to get in there.   When you over torque them it pulls on the cap first attempting to turn the bolt or nut that it's capping.  That first step starts to loosen it and then It goes down hill from there.  I've serviced p38 rovers that were serviced from day one only at the dealer that still have original capped lugnuts and I've also dealt with two year old rover sports that had trashed lugnuts from going to Walmart, tires, plus etc.