Just read the Motor Trend BMW M2 review

While lauding the car in many ways they also lambast it for not allowing you to selectively turn off driving aids like the auto throttle blipping or to manage the throttle, steering and suspension settings separately like in the other M cars.

And yet, you can just turn off the stability control and all that stuff gets disabled, so I fail to see the actual complaint other than Motor Trend reviewers are a bunch of wussies.

I wouldn't have made that harsh a judgment except they go on and on at the beginning about how they really want a car like this for enthusiasts and how getting the automatic in this car means you're not a real enthusiast and then they declare that BMW is trying to kill them by not allowing them to have selective nannying.

For years Motor Trend has been my least used source for automotive info. Sometimes I'll read it in a waiting room & that's it.

I fail to see how only having 'everything' and 'nothing' options is not a valid complaint. Sounds annoying.

In reply to Harvey: I watch the Motor Trend reviews on Youtube over reading their magazine. It is a reasonable complaint to not be able to custom turn off driving aids (IMO)because I'm sure that other non-performance cars let drivers do that(along with their other M cars), plus, some people may want stability control on along with a couple of aids, especially when they're hauling ass on back roads or the auto-x/track days.

You can't make everybody happy. If they allowed total customization where each driver aide could be selected individually, you'd have people saying it was too complex and difficult to navigate, or there were too many buttons that made the interior too "busy". For every person that thinks "let me choose exactly what I want" , there's probably another that says "just make it simple, I don't want to be forced to navigate through a ton of options/menus, I just want to drive".

I find myself yawning thru most new car hype these days.

There are literally no cars that suit my needs and budget at the same time that I find compelling.

I should love the M2. I do not.

Huckleberry wrote: I find myself yawning thru most new car hype these days. There are literally no cars that suit my needs and budget at the same time that I find compelling. I should love the M2. I do not.

I'm in sort of the same boat. Occasionally I'll think "oh that sounds nice" and then remind myself that I can't afford to buy a $400 set of tires for my $1300 car and it doesn't really matter all that much.

Sounds like BMW may be a victim of it's own success.

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: auto-x/track days.

You will be suitably chastised by instructors for leaving on driving aids while on track.

z31maniac wrote:

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: auto-x/track days.

You will be suitably chastised by instructors for leaving on driving aids while on track.

Planning to attend my first track day. Is this really true? I suppose it could be to prevent brake fade/failure. Please elucidate.

In reply to Strike_Zero:

That sums it up, I think.

They succeeded in parting enthusiasts from their money with practical, well handling sedans and specials built on practical performance. They moved upmarket in the 80s but continued to deliver serious driver cars that would stay together thru years of abuse and hold track supplies in the trunk/back seat. They won touring car championships and F1 races. Executives and soccer moms even bought them.

Then they made SUVs. Then they made the cars bigger, heavier and more luxurious. And fragile. And even more expensive. Now they are solely the dreams of well to do soccer moms and misguided executives.

I'm bored to tears by the whole line-up.

The ND, the Cayman and the Golf R are basically the only late model cars that I like on the market - and only the Golf R is what I'd consider practical for my needs. But... I can't pay cash for it at $41k out the door. That breaks my Mr Money Mustache rule for retiring early.

So... I um... er... bought a brand new motorcycle if things go well tomorrow at the KTM dealership and I'm picking up a nice $1500 E30 that needs a little love for cheap on Saturday that I'll drive and flip for profit when I get bored with it. The more things change... the more they stay the same around here.

hotchocolate wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: auto-x/track days.

You will be suitably chastised by instructors for leaving on driving aids while on track.

Planning to attend my first track day. Is this really true? I suppose it could be to prevent brake fade/failure. Please elucidate.

Most cars do really unpredictable things (from a performance driving POV) at the limit when stability control is on, like cut the throttle if you're sliding even a little bit and yes the other part of that is brake application so generally you will overuse the brakes if you leave stability control on, though obviously some performance cars are designed to work on track with some of this stuff on.

This seems to be the major complaint that the Motor Trend guys make while proclaiming themselves to be hardcore enthusiasts they also want the thing to have some high tech gizmos to keep them from sliding off the track if they decide to try to go 100% when they should be going 80%.

I've never driven a car at autocross where I wanted the stability control or sport mode or other nannies on at all and I've driven pretty much everything at autox from Miatas to Corvettes and Boss Mustangs. It should all be off. Even if you're a novice you shouldn't leave any of this stuff on because it's just going to do things that will make you develop bad habits or you'll just be wondering why the car won't go when you're at the limit in a corner and trying to power out of it. The car will cut throttle or apply the brakes to save you from a situation where you don't need to be saved.

Agreed. I don't like pushing a car with stability control or anything on, as it tends to end with me in a situation where I'm trying to correct something while the computer is also correcting it, leading to an over-correction. Or it cuts in earlier than it needs to, having been calibrated around all seasons that don't tolerate much slip angle.

rslifkin wrote: Agreed. I don't like pushing a car with stability control or anything on, as it tends to end with me in a situation where I'm trying to correct something while the computer is also correcting it, leading to an over-correction. Or it cuts in earlier than it needs to, having been calibrated around all seasons that don't tolerate much slip angle.

Exactly. Do know what happens when two pilots try to control an aircraft simultaneously? It crashes. Lots of dead instructor/students attest to that. So too, will bad things happen if you hamfist a car at the limit with driving aids full on.

I think their point was they didn't want the car to auto blip while on the street. At the same time they didn't want to turn off the stability control while driving on the street to keep it from auto blipping.

Some of their complaints are based on semantics. If BMW is going to call the car an "M" car then it should have some of the basic features that all of the "M" cars have, like actual temperature gauges and the ability to make (and save) custom settings to traction control, steering, etc, etc.

It really sounds like, while this is a very entertaining car, it's not really an "M" car, it's more of an M235is...

I liked the M235i that we had as a project car. I'm sure this new M2 will be very much like that car, only more focused, and more intense. This is a good thing.

Where BMW has lost me is with their electronic steering. If you've never driven a pre-electric steering BMW, you'll probably think the newer cars feel fine---- they do. However, drive a pre-electric steering BMW to a current car, and you'll see how much more direct and satisfying the older car's steering is.

Although the M235i was faster, more comfortable, had more grip, and tech do-dads than my old E36 M3......the older car is more communicative, and more fun to drive. It's an intangible, but it makes the difference between "like" and "love". I've just returned from driving my old car to the Mitty and back---- and each mile reminded me of why I love that car. I"m sure I'll like the new M2, but I'm pretty positive I won't love it.

I want to thank all the posters in this thread who made posts not including "i am too cool for school/safety tech" and "i am too cool for motor trend/motor trend is total E36 M3" because i get really sad when a GRM thread falls into reinforcing negative stereotypes about internet car forum users that i come here to escape.

Vigo wrote: I fail to see how only having 'everything' and 'nothing' options is not a valid complaint. Sounds annoying.

agreed

auto throttle blipping going off when you want to get rid of stability control and others? sounds dumb, what if I like that feature?

I don't instruct track, but I do let my novice autocross students leave TC on if it makes them more comfortable. We talk about why it's better to turn it off but I can teach a relaxed student better than a scared one. I also encourage experienced drivers to leave it on every now and again for the same reason I encourage people to engage ABS, knowing how your car is likely to behave on the street makes you a better/more attentive driver.
At least we've mostly gotten past people complaining about not being able to disable ABS.

hotchocolate wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: auto-x/track days.

You will be suitably chastised by instructors for leaving on driving aids while on track.

Planning to attend my first track day. Is this really true? I suppose it could be to prevent brake fade/failure. Please elucidate.

Because letting the computer fix your mistakes isn't teaching you how to feel limits.

There were two guys this past weekend, one in an NC Miata and one in a new Cayman S. They were hustling the cars, but openly admitted to "throwing the cars in and letting the computer sort it out."

Street driving is one thing, if you're at the track trying to learn the limits, you aren't finding them with the nannies.

I usually don't ask students to turn off the aids - I ask them to notice when it is "holding them back" (read: saving them from themselves). If they ask me if they should disable it I will advise they should drive a lap without triggering it first - then drive that same lap without it and dial it up from there.

That conversation almost never happens though - most people show up with it off or have no interest in turning it off at all. They are either trying to go fast or HPDE tourists essentially. Neither is wrong - as long as the customer is happy.

Vigo wrote: I want to thank all the posters in this thread who made posts not including "i am too cool for school/safety tech" and "i am too cool for motor trend/motor trend is total E36 M3" because i get really sad when a GRM thread falls into reinforcing negative stereotypes about internet car forum users that i come here to escape.

I assume you're referring to me? When did I ever say that I am too cool for safety tech?

Also, when did I say I was too cool for Motor Trend?

docwyte wrote: I think their point was they didn't want the car to auto blip while on the street. At the same time they didn't want to turn off the stability control while driving on the street to keep it from auto blipping. Some of their complaints are based on semantics. If BMW is going to call the car an "M" car then it should have some of the basic features that all of the "M" cars have, like actual temperature gauges and the ability to make (and save) custom settings to traction control, steering, etc, etc. It really sounds like, while this is a very entertaining car, it's not really an "M" car, it's more of an M235is...

I think they might have a point except the M2 is much less expensive overall for what you get than an M3 which is the next closest M car in price. Notice the M2 is loaded out at its base price with only one set of amenities that are nice to have, but not necessary, whereas the M3 base really needs a few additions from the option boxes.

Also that you have all the actual important stuff in the M2 from the M3/4 like, rear diff, suspension, larger wheel openings, more powerful upgraded motor, but you don't have some of the electronic gizmos that control traction and steering etc seems like something enthusiasts would actually appreciate rather than deride BMW for leaving off.

I also remember that the older/more aggressive traction control systems will also prevent you from sliding the car at all, so you can't learn how to control it at the limit. My E36 has traction control, and I forgot to turn it off at an auto-x before, it wasn't fun.

I'm not against stability control or abs or any safety tech of that sort, but I don't think it really has a place on a track or at an autocross. The tech is there to help you on public roads, because there are a lot of variables that you can't control that can cause you to be distracted or have to make panic maneuvers. An animal jumps out ahead of you or you roll over black ice during a turn or someone changes lanes into you without looking or you just get distracted by someone in the car for a half second and a sudden stop happens in front of you. These are all things where safety tech is there to intervene because you might accidentally exceed the limits of the car by an unsafe margin.

On a track or autocross you should be focused on what you are doing and you should take an instructor with you if you are not sure where the course goes or where the limits are on the car and for sure you should not try to drive 100% and rely on electronic aids to save you. The thing is you will never figure out the actual limits of the car if you have electronic aids turned on.