How cool is it that we have at least three major complete choices for completely different engine swaps, all available for far less than a new car, even when the donor car is included.
I don't have any money to spend, and a Miata totally would not fit my profile in life, but wow. This is really cool.
Don't know if I ever shared this here but here is the dyno from my little LS3 miata. Just to note, this is with a stock Camaro long block and just the swap bolt ons. Header, intake, and exhaust. It's also a pretty conservative tune overall. She can be in the mid 400's with a cam.
Just as a comparison point for everything discussed here.
Yeah, the LS3 really puts it down. I honestly couldn't own one, myself. I'm too lacking in restraint to not get stupid.
USERNAMETAKEN said:Keith Tanner said:RossD said:RE Keith: Speaking of a NC Ecoboost; How does the rest of the drivetrain hold up to Ecoboost power levels?
I don’t rightly know. The trans should be stronger than the earlier ones. Define “Ecoboost power levels”.
For a 2.0 EcoBoost running the Ford Racing controls pack, you're looking at 250 hp @ ~4500 rpm, and 360 lb-ft torque @ ~2800 rpm. Rough numbers from this dyno chart from Ford Racing:
Should hold together on “stock” power, I’d be concerned with the upgrades. Thus my request to define what power level was under discussion 
In reply to Keith Tanner :
The blue lines on that dyno chart is for the stock Focus ST. The red lines are for the same engine, with colder plugs and the FRPP Control Pack tune. This is the tune you get with an engine swap.
Do you feel like the NC trans would be appropriate with the FRPP tune?
That FoST has a crazy power curve (I think 2.3L was intended, rather than 2.0L). The HP looks like the torque curve in a many common situations. It makes 85% of peak HP from 3200-6500rpm. The torque curve looks like a typical HP curve mirrored right to left.
KMiata said:By contrast, most LE5 ecotec swappers are seeing 160-170whp, although at a lower overall cost.
Most? How do you know that?
There was nothing special about the car that made 200/200
kevlarcorolla said:In reply to goingnowherefast :
Thanks a bunch,no E85 anywhere around me in Canuck land:(
That's a shame :( E85 is what made those numbers possible. It also adds a nice factor of safety
In reply to goingnowherefast :
Agreed,I'd run it with my baby JRSC setup I'm running untill I decide to pull the trigger on an upgrade.
The ecotec miata guys run strong and very reliably with their chump tester,I'm ok giving up some power over other combos if I can just arrive and drive all day with min worries of broken/overheated parts.
USERNAMETAKEN said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
The blue lines on that dyno chart is for the stock Focus ST. The red lines are for the same engine, with colder plugs and the FRPP Control Pack tune. This is the tune you get with an engine swap.
Do you feel like the NC trans would be appropriate with the FRPP tune?
I'd be concerned. That's a lot of torks for a car that has 150 rwhp from the factory.
In reply to bmw88rider :
Thanks for sharing the dyno sheet! That's cool. Definitely a lot of easy power there.
Since transmissions are on my mind right now, what did you put in behind that LS-3? T-56? What about the rear end?
In reply to USERNAMETAKEN :
I know most LS Miatas use the T56 transmission with the Getrag rear diff out of the CTS-V
In reply to NickD :
I think the upgrade from the Getrag is the Ford 8.8 IRS
bmw88rider's LS3 has a T56 Magnum behind it. The T56 is strong enough, but the Magnum shifts better. The rear end in his car is actually an 8.8. It's different than the Getrag - lots of aftermarket parts, but big, heavy and not available new. We're using either Getrags or Camaro AAM diffs these days, depending on the generation of the car.
Yeah, It's a 8.8" with a T2R diff now and 3.73 rear end ratio. It was a clutch pack Ford racing before that. It's an odd duck as most do have the Getrag or AAM.
Both that and the T56 are more than enough. My uncle has the same combo behind his ZZ 572 crate motors corvette.
I wonder how much mental gymnastics needs to be done for a TKO 500 or 600 over a T56 in an LSen swap. I guess donor vehicle condition and pricing has a lot to do with this though, like if an LS1 Camaro with a T56 that is in good condition / doesn't need rebuilding can be found for a few grand or less.
This is just me playing with options in my head and not to actually do something. T56's seem pretty heavy and big when all you want is an overdriven manual trans that will live behind whatever engine is selected.
What's the ratio selection like for the Getrag or AAM diff's? 7.5 and 8.8 Fords have piles of ratios available as well as cheap clutch LSD's or Torsen-esque options that don't break the bank.
The Getrag ratios are pretty common. 2.56, 2.73, 3.23, 3.46, 3.73, and I think 3.9
The difference is in the selection of diffs. 8.8" is cheap and very plentiful. The Getrags, not so much. So if you are happy with the factory clutch LSD, no problem. If you aren't I'd look into that.
Seems kind of a wash then really as far as ratios available on the face of things and it's back to costs on which rear. to use.
Really your tire size will regulate that.
NA/NB with ~24" tires will be either 3.42 or 3.55. You may run as low as a 3.23/3.27 if you want deep over drive.
NC with ~25" tires, 3.73 is right on with 3.55 or 3.42 if you want a deep overdrive.
The formula will change if you consider resale value.
A nicely done LS Miata has some serious resale value. $20K or more. Plenty sell for more than $30K
A clean 5.0 Miata will seem outdated- resale will max out at about $15k
A K swapped Miata is also desirable, and will fetch a solid $20K +
A J swapped Miata, or a V6 is a sub $10K car, even if very clean.
A UZ Miata is a bastard child that you will have to give away.
They all take the same amount of effort to build.
Good points there SV. Drastic differences there.
SVreX said:The formula will change if you consider resale value.
A nicely done LS Miata has some serious resale value. $20K or more. Plenty sell for more than $30K
A clean 5.0 Miata will seem outdated- resale will max out at about $15k
A K swapped Miata is also desirable, and will fetch a solid $20K +
A J swapped Miata, or a V6 is a sub $10K car, even if very clean.
A UZ Miata is a bastard child that you will have to give away.
They all take the same amount of effort to build.
Where would you say a boosted B6/BP Miata falls?
In reply to NickD :
That depends on the kit.
A homegrown setup including eBay turbo? $8-10k
A clean Voodoo? $12-15
An FMII? $15-18
I think I am suggesting best case scenarios for very clean builds.
Also when it comes to resale, people prefer identifiable names to DIY stuff - even if the DIY is significantly better made and/or engineered.
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