Karmann Ghias: Cool or Not?

I've always been a bit partial to VWs. My dad had '69 Beetle for most of my early youth, while my uncle had a series of Karmann Ghias. I always liked KGs, but recognize they're not really a sports car.

What's the GRM consensus on how COOL (not necessarily how fast, valuable or track-worthy) Karmann Ghias are?

I always like the convertibles but found them over priced

wnick wrote: I always like the convertibles but found them over priced

And RUSTY

Kool. They command quite a price premium over the mechanically same Beetle.

Very cool.

There's a silver one with a 993 under it. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: http://straightspeed.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/bader-racing-karmann-ghia-993-rs/

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I say cool (I have one though).

Mechanically identical to a beetle, but clearly a sportier look. Also great for pissing off 356 guys when you tell them they are essentially the same car.

Look at it this way: the GT version of the 356, narrower and longer for freeway flying.

WAY kool. Would not want to DD one if it involved any highway driving.

Consider them as a Porsche 356 at a much lower cost. And I have owned 356's.

Cool. Very, very difficult to restore.

I say cool. my FIL ordered one back when they first can out and would go to where the trains unload outside Toronto every day after work to see it was there.

Woody wrote: Cool. Very, *very* difficult to restore.

Why do you say that?

Part are clearly not an issue, one person could probably disassemble the entire car in a day, the body lifts off the chassis.

Is it all the curves? Or the unibody? Heck, I am working on an early Corvair, there are pretty much no vertically flat panels on that car, an nightmare of layered welded panels in some areas and no way to get behind most of the skin!

Definately NOT cool . . . now Miatas are cool. VERY cool, same with BMWs.

Why don't all of you forget about Karmann Ghias and just go back to the Miatas and BMWs.

Leave the Karmann Ghias to me . . .

"Why do you say that?"

If you have to ask that, you have no clue and it's almost not worth explaining to to you.

Sorry, not being rude at all, just don't have a spare week to go into everything with you.

I've owned twelve Karmann Ghias, have never been without one as my daily driver in over 35 years. Pretty much know everything that there is to know about them, even act as the judge at the Litchfield and Terryville VW Shows for the Karmann Ghia class. They're of an extremely complicated body construction, over-lapping seams and body panels leaded together, with multiple inner structures throughout. Each of these sub-structures is prone to collecting water and rusting from the inside out, with no factory rust prohibitor or undercoating. Cabriolets are simply metal bowls, coupes are little better. When the seals go, they just sit and collect water, so much so that owners very ofter drill 5/8s holes in the floor pan at the lowest spots to help drain it off.

Multiply what I just "mentioned" by one hundred and you'll only scratch the surface of how difficult these cars are to restore, especially at this late stage in their existence.

Example: Guaranteed that every body-to-pan bolt is rusted in place and will snap if you try to unbolt the body from the platform, the hidden forward bolts will be corroded beyond approach and the rear bolts that go through the small "pads" on the cast rear shock towers will be an even bigger headache. Now you need to either drill and tap every hole or most likely replace the pans and lower body sections that carry the threaded holes and mounting holes. Of course, this will mean inner/middle/and outer rockers, heater channels, pans and perimeters, front and rear Napoleon Hats, battery tray area, rear inner body section, fire wall base, lower lock plates and hinge plates, and possibly new front foot wells.

THAT'S, just what will need replacing if the areas holding the body mounting bolts are bad. All of this is well below the belt line, haven't even considered the actual body, mechanicals, soft parts, rubbers, and on and on.

If you can get the body stripped, disassembled, and off of the pan in a day, head for New England and you'll make a fortune.

Expensive nightmares to do right; flimsy, dangerous, crap cans when done wrong.

Just stay away, more for me !

This^

My first restoration job ever was a '67 Ghia. It was hell.

Just try to chase a dent out of that body.

Nothing but the doors, decklid, and hood unbolt from the body.

I've never touched another ACVW since.

Way cool. Had a drag/show version with a one piece slope nosed front so the whole section pulled off. Candy apple metal flake red. What a blast.

I like them set up like the gray one above with custom Fuchs.

Way cool. Had a drag/show version with a one piece slope nosed front so the whole section pulled off. Candy apple metal flake red. What a blast.

I like them set up like the gray one above with custom Fuchs.

The coolness factor for me are moderate to moderately high. But it's much cooler to buy what you think is cool, Clarty.

Is pepto bismol color a stock color? I have one down the street.

I like these but there are other imports from the period I like way more that is probably around the same price. Datsun roadster, Triumph TR6, Triumph GT6, MGB. I'm guessing these are priced around those, right?

Roadster versions are all kinds of cool.

It is a beetle for people who don't like the way beetle's look.

Stock, they cannot back up their looks with any kind of performance. Even a clapped out MGB can run rings around a stock Ghia.

The bodywork was all hand-done by crazed european gnomes at Ghia. It was build to be seamless, beautiful, rust profusely and be virtually unrepairable.

Mechanically it's just a Beetle.

Performance-wise, my the GT6 and the B are both better cars. The limits on all these old heaps is well below a Chevy Aveo today, but the MG and Triumph usually feel like they know what they're doing, and the Ghia does not. It performed pretty much on par with my VW square back.

And yeah, I'd take another in a heartbeat. They are gorgeous, and they're surprisingly comfortable and roomy, too. I like 'em.

I had a '65 when I was 16. It was the worst-repaired car ever, with screen door aluminum panels riveted into the floors, and carpeted wood paneling hiding their work. Worst $300 I've ever spent. I did make money selling it later, though, but not much. The 40 HP engine was worn out to about 20 HP, so it wouldn't go anywhere fast.

I did fool the guy at the full-service gas station in 1986. I popped the hood while pulling up. He walked around the car twice before I told him where the gas filler was.

I will NEVER buy a rusty car again. I hated my Karmann Ghia, but mainly because it was such a rusty piece of crap. I rarely see a 20 year old car now that is as rusty as that car was when it was 20 years old.

TeamEvil wrote: ...Multiply what I just "mentioned" by one hundred and you'll only scratch the surface of how difficult these cars are to restore, especially at this late stage in their existence...

OK, that is what I thought. They do sound a lot like the early Corvairs. How about two pieces of metal that slowly joint to a to a pinch, that can't be accessed, IN the rain channel area! More then one even!

I feel your pain.

I don't know.. We prefer the beetles a little more...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSzol39_fEE

I used to think they were pretty cool then one day I backed into the exhaust on one of them at a Solo event with my calf. ("What's that burning skin smell? Oh crap, that's me!") Now I'm less sure they're cool. Especially the kind with the exhaust that sticks out and up. Burns hurt more later than they do at first. Solo events may not have the most full assortment of first aid stuff in their box. Bring your own burn cream.

At this point, I would vote for cool, but I don't want one.