Kraftwerks supercharger kit for NC Miata, thoughts?

I'm having bad thoughts. I get a stock bonus next month, and our stock has basically returned to "pre-Rona" levels..........and our refinance closes early next month.........meaning I don't have to make a mortgage payment for June or July. The car already has the brakes and suspension to handle the extra POWAH! Although it would probably need a clutch at some point.

I ask because in the BRZ/GT-86 world, the Kraftwerks kit weren't known for being "high quality" and had lots of issues with belt tensioners and breaking/throwing belts.

Is it the same for the NC kit?

I'm not sure about the NC Miata, but I know their kit had similar issues on the NA/NB. Somebody on here, codrus maybe, said their friend bought the Kraftwerks kit for the NA/NB and basically had to re-engineer the entire kit before they were done. That was a big reason why I went with Track Dog instead. Track Dog is working on a Rotrex kit for the NC, but its not on the market yet.

There's always the FM kit:

https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata-nc-supercharger-system.html

Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

There's always the FM kit:

https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata-nc-supercharger-system.html

This product is on hiatus. Due to very high production and inventory costs, we have made the decision to stop offering it for the time being. We may bring it back again in the future, but we do not have any timeframe for that. If you would like updates, you can sign up for an email on this page.

Yeah, don't count on that one being available anytime soon. The only reason it's still listed on the website is so we can answer the question "is it still available?" without an email or phone call.

Keith Tanner said:

Yeah, don't count on that one being available anytime soon. The only reason it's still listed on the website is so we can answer the question "is it still available?" without an email or phone call.

Since even Edelbrock doesn't list it anymore, I've just been operating under the assumption that it's never coming back.

I know Fab9Tuning has a turbo kit for the NC, but it's also a few thousand more. 

2.5 swap seems to be the power adder most do for NC's

Keith Tanner said:

Yeah, don't count on that one being available anytime soon. The only reason it's still listed on the website is so we can answer the question "is it still available?" without an email or phone call.

Great.  Never mind then.  Thinking about it, I thought that the company that originally made it was selling it themselves?

MrChaos said:

2.5 swap seems to be the power adder most do for NC's

Yep. But it seems 200whp is about the limit of what you can reasonably expect. Which is really more than enough and I'll probably end up going that way at some point, but the 2.0 in the car now is still running great and strong, so don't really want to remove it until it gets weak, starts burning oil, etc. 

Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

Yeah, don't count on that one being available anytime soon. The only reason it's still listed on the website is so we can answer the question "is it still available?" without an email or phone call.

Great.  Never mind then.  Thinking about it, I thought that the company that originally made it was selling it themselves?

z31maniac said:

Since even Edelbrock doesn't list it anymore, I've just been operating under the assumption that it's never coming back.

I know Fab9Tuning has a turbo kit for the NC, but it's also a few thousand more. 

Edelbrock was never involved although there are some staff members that have popped up at both companies. That kit has a bit of a weird history - Cosworth decided they wanted to get into the Miata market, so they threw a bunch of money at Magnusson and said "make us a kit". It came to market after a fairly long gestation period and the third party engine management was not done well. Engines started popping. Cosworth threw their hands up and walked away. We went to Magnusson and bought all the stock and paired it with better engine management, then paid for a few more production runs. The cost to get exclusive access was too high, so eventually a competitor or two started to piggyback on those production runs. It's a previous generation product at Magnusson, though, and they didn't really want to make them. We went through the CARB EO process for it just in time for Magnusson to increase the minimums to the point where it wasn't a viable product. We would have had to order years of product for another run. Anyone can pony up for that next run, but they have to be willing to invest serious money with a slow return to do it. The EO only applies to our own version, though - we had to make some changes to the kit and of course it's in our name.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Ahh ok. For some reason I thought it was an Edelbrock supercharger like the ND. 

Sucks though. I know buying from FM I'd be getting a quality product vs something I need "fix" for it to work properly. Which to me, is completely unacceptable when spending thousands of dollars on something.

In reply to z31maniac :

You could try calling Track Dog and see what the ETA is on their kit. It was like a year or two ago that they announced they were looking for guinea pigs to start testing. I know my TDR-blown NB engine has way outpowered any of the Kraftwerks Rotrex-Blown NBs I've come across. Like 40-50hp more. Bigger intercooler, better belt drive, better designed charge piping with larger radius turns.

There is an old guy that comes to a couple of our autocrosses with a Kraftwerks-supercharged NC. I've never really talked to him though. It's an automatic car with 60000tw tires and all sorts of chrome stick-on trim and it rarely sees above 3000rpm, so I haven't seen any issues with that car at any events just because it isn't really beat on.

A centrifugal that never goes above 3000! Poor thing. If the owner ever winds that thing out he's in for a surprise.

There are some crazy behind the scenes stories in the centrifugal supercharger world. Things like the tax man coming in the front door as trucks are heading out the back. For some reason, that type of power adder seems cursed when it comes to bringing them to market and keeping them there. I'd be pretty confident working with Track Dog, though.

I checked out their website and sent them an email regarding it. 

Looks like they have a few other items I may be interested in as well.

I'd suggest saving the money for wheels and tires.  Put Hoosiers on it for truly stupid cornering speed (that's what Miatai are all about anyway).  

Keith Tanner said:

A centrifugal that never goes above 3000! Poor thing. If the owner ever winds that thing out he's in for a surprise.

No kidding. Mine is a little punchier than a stock NB at lower speeds but around 4000rpm it's like when a 2-stroke comes up on the pipe.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) said:

I'd suggest saving the money for wheels and tires.  Put Hoosiers on it for truly stupid cornering speed (that's what Miatai are all about anyway).  

Probably won't be in the cards anytime soon. I'll probably just screw on the current tires this season, then throw some 200tw on it next season. 

I'm already going to need to get a little trailer to do HPDE with it. So I can have a cooler, tools, jack stands, jack, etc. My #1stworldproblems, now that I'm in OKC instead of the west side of Tulsa, Hallett is no longer a 35 minute drive.......it's more like an 1 hour 45 minutes.

But I'll probably just stick with trying AutoX this year so I can try to learn the car. 

From TDR regarding an NC Rotrex kit:

"Our NC Rotrex kit is having some setbacks.  We are having issues with finding a reliable tuner to work with us.  I don’t have any ETA as of right now.  Please follow us on Instagram or Facebook as we will be updating any progress there."

Same reason still no Supercharger kit for the ND. Can't EcuTek to spend the time to crack the ECU.

Different problem. The tools exist to reprogram the NC (and ND1) ECU. The problem is finding a quality person to wield those tools, and your choice of tuner is like choosing your personal messiah. Complete with religious wars. Makes it difficult to separate the signal from the noise.

The ND2, there are no tools.

I am not sure this helps you in any way, but here it goes. 

I owned a Kraftwerks kit on my S2000 for many years and around 30k miles. I bought this kit when Oscar Jackson Sr and Jr were running Kraftwerks. At least I believe they were owners as I talked to Jr many times. This part part to me is important*. 

I had a few problems with my kit which were more nuisances than anything else:

- The factory water pump pulley in the S2000 would crack from the extra load. I had a spare in the trunk, $10 bucks each and easy to replace.
- The KW tensioner would fail every 10k miles. Every time I called KW, Oscar Jackson Jr would take my call and send me a new one free of charge. Eventually I redesigned the pulley and got better bearings from SKF. As I deal with SKF on a commercial level I was able to get them to help me figure out a better solution. Never broke again but it was expensive. 

With that being said, the car was insanely fun to drive and I would do it again in a heartbeat. 

* This is more my take on things and an opinion, but might be important. I drove my car from Florida to California. Driving through Loveland pass in Colorado I lost the tensioner. No big deal as I had the stock set-up and rerouted the belt bypassing the SC. Running the car without the SC was a pain as the tune would not engage the high cam and the car was a dog in the climbs. 
While I stopped in Grand Junction I called KW and talked to Oscar Jr. We decided the best thing would be to keep driving like that and stop by Skunkworks (They were running KW out of that place). 
Long story short I got there 3 hours late at around 9 pm, both Sr and Jr waited for me. Showed me the facilities for over an hour and we fixed the car in the garage. They then took me, my wife and 2 other couples to In & Out for dinner. They paid. Keep in mind I just bought a kit, that's it.
I cant say enough good of them and its one of the reasons I would buy again from them. With that being said, I don't know if they owned KW or not, but I am not sure they are still involved. 

Also, back then (2010) Sr. had a green Miata. I think it was an NA or NB. It was very FAST!! I asked him how come it was so fast and he laughed and showed me the Rotrex he was running in it. They were not selling it back then, I took it for a spin and wanted to buy a Miata right away. That night both Sr and Jr were in Miatas, green and red. They know their Miatas.

Also, Rotrex SCs are notable for having a 30k or so lifespan. They dont last forever and there are very few people that can rebuild one. 

Mine never showed signs of being bad even at 30k miles. And I over spun mine a lot using a smaller pulley that I custom made.

One thing I was proud of is that when Jackson Sr. was changing my tensioner,  I saw on his face he was looking at my pulley for a good 2' and probably knew something was off ... he did not say anything lol. I copied it to a T and you needed a caliper to be able to tell. He had good eyes though. 

I don't believe OJ is still involved with KW. He's a good guy to hang out, many stories!

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I had a feeling that was the case. I think they could not use Jackson Racing at the moment and were just waiting for it to be available again.

I have only good things to say about the Jacksons. Sr.was happy that someone as young as me back then remembered reading an article about him on R&T about the writer chasing a 1st gen Civic in his press loaner Mustang GT on PCH and not being able to catch it. Good people.

Slippery (Forum Supporter) said:

Also, Rotrex SCs are notable for having a 30k or so lifespan. They dont last forever and there are very few people that can rebuild one. 

Mine never showed signs of being bad even at 30k miles. And I over spun mine a lot using a smaller pulley that I custom made.

One thing I was proud of is that when Jackson Sr. was changing my tensioner,  I saw on his face he was looking at my pulley for a good 2' and probably knew something was off ... he did not say anything lol. I copied it to a T and you needed a caliper to be able to tell. He had good eyes though. 

 

With how often I drive, 30k miles would give me approximately 6-7 years of service? And I'll likely pick up a different DD at the end of next year, and this will become a pure toy. At which point, it will likley only be driven at AutoX and HPDE. 

But if TDR can't find a tuner, I won't hold my breath for a kit. I'll just keep looking toward the 2.5 swap.

I'm not impressed with the Rotrex blowers.  I had one on my first E36 M3 and it blew up.  My friend had one on his M Coupe and two blew up.  Neither had very many miles on them.  They're simply unreliable compared to a Vortec blower, which can also be rebuilt whereas the Rotrex can't...