Le Mans

alfadriver wrote:

petegossett wrote: So I googled trying to figure out how the delta wing performed before being taken out, but all I really found was press release fluff. So I take it that the car couldn't really keep pace?

According to articles I've read, it was targeting 3:40-3:45 pace, and according to the final results, the car did a 3:45 for one driver and a 3:46 for another. Right near projections and targets. That's mid of P2 during the race. In practice, it ran a 3:42. It did ok, but was hampered with some transmission problems before the crash. edit- results can be found here- http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h-du-mans/live-2012/results.html

But seeing as it's targeted for LMP 1 class...

Pics slowly coming in from my friends. Here's my buddy Steve Tarrant (in the wheelchair) participating in the last-lap flag salute (car is the Pesci Dome). That's Poste (worker station en Francais) 106, downstream from Arnage.

I'm waiting to see the stuff from my Dutch friend, he was at Poste 123. He says the Delta Wing hit the wall at their Flag station, and they shoved it into the Home station. He & his crew actually witnessed Motoyama's drama working on the car.

In reply to racerfink:

I never saw much that it was targeted to run at P1 speeds, and all of the articles I've read- particularly the ones in Racecar Engineering put it squarely in the P2 speed window.

The main goal to reduce fuel consumption and still go quick enough.

Which is a segway into- I'd like to link to the ACO website, but it was announced that the 2014 rules will be run with a fuel flow restrictor. The intention to scale back fuel consumption by about 30%.

Given that it has about 75% of the LMP2's horsepower and 55% of it's weight...

LMP 2 cars have a really hard time passing GT2 cars because in most cases, the GT2 cars have more horsepower.

When this car started garnering attention, all the talk was about trying to go after Audi with less motor and less drag. As the car came to completion and ran it's first tests, all that talk went away. Notice how the only people talking about how it's comparable to LMP2 times are people on message boards, and not anybody associated with the Delta Wing?

I read somewhere that the ACO wanted them to limit their lap times to about what they were running, but that may have been for practice.

I know the youtube video made it look like it didn't make it back but speed did an interview with the team manager in the garage with the car sitting there at night. He was saying what an awesome effort it was for the driver to get it back. He did get the diff unlocked at some point and drove it back

racerfink wrote: Given that it has about 75% of the LMP2's horsepower and 55% of it's weight... LMP 2 cars have a really hard time passing GT2 cars because in most cases, the GT2 cars have more horsepower. When this car started garnering attention, all the talk was about trying to go after Audi with less motor and less drag. As the car came to completion and ran it's first tests, all that talk went away. Notice how the only people talking about how it's comparable to LMP2 times are people on message boards, and not anybody associated with the Delta Wing?

who?

Again, the lap times they laid out last August in Racecar Engineering was always P2. (RcE-Aug 2011, p44)

Those times came from Ben Bowlby, the guy who designed the Deltawing.

That's both a long time ago and very associated with the program. And not a message board, as well.

More was discussed in the October 2011 issue of Racecar Engineering.

I think the P1 aspirations were from the estimates that it would not have to pit very often, which was changed to match the cadence of the rest of the field.

Here's a link to the 2014 rules as posted on iMotorTimes- http://www.imotortimes.com/articles/1729/20120618/2014-le-mans-rule-changes.htm

No more restrictions on engine design, allowed up to 4 bar boost, no limit on fuel pressure. But all cars will have a fuel flow restrictor, which will force the cars to run 30% less fuel. Smaller fuel tanks, as well.

All cars will aslo be closed, lighter, narrower, and will be allowed adjustments to lower drag and maintain some downforce.

hybrid technology is also allowed, to different degrees. Not sure what that means, but it seems as if the top teams will go for the most regeneration allowed.

The concepts are more solid, I think, from a perspective of moving technology out of the race car to the street car. ACO does a better job than the FIA right now, and this just gets it better. It will be interesting to see how many manufacturers go into the P categories due to the technology.

Thanks for that.

It's a shame that Peugeot didn't run this year, as then we would have had flywheel, supercap and battery-powered hybrids duking it out. That's the interesting sort of tech transfer we need, and Le Mans has historically been a race intended to push the boundaries of road car technology. It had me thinking about our previous discussions of how a Volt would fare on stage rally. A flywheel hybrid doesn't make any sense for a commuter car unless you use shore power to spin up the flywheel, and even then I'm not sure how long it would last.

I want to see someone use compressed air as a storage medium One of the little supercheap Indian cars runs off compressed air, but it can't compress it. You could use the compression braking to pressurize the tank, then either use the compressed air to power the wheels or just use it to force air into the combustion chamber - a delayed action turbo, so to speak. Okay, that's maybe a little far-fetched.

nicksta43 wrote: I know the youtube video made it look like it didn't make it back but speed did an interview with the team manager in the garage with the car sitting there at night. He was saying what an awesome effort it was for the driver to get it back. He did get the diff unlocked at some point and drove it back

it was abandoned on track after a valiant attempt at mending it enough to drive back, but couldn't. Footage showed the driver exit into the crowd and get shuttled back to pit lane on the back of a scooter.

99.9% sure that it was flat bedded/towed back.

It was towed back. They asked the aco if they could return to the track of they fixed it, and they said no. The team said they would have repaired it and went back on track if they had let them.

as for it's speed being P2 level ... wonder how it would have fared with the same size tank as the P1 cars

We need a race series that allows a little more creativity. Formula 1 is so meh. Advantages through minor aero tweaks doesnt feel like technical progress that will trickle down

Like where is the open ended lemons equivalent that is just based on price and or fuel consumption

Jaynen wrote: We need *a* race series that allows a little more creativity. Formula 1 is so meh. Advantages through minor aero tweaks doesnt feel like technical progress that will trickle down Like where is the open ended lemons equivalent that is just based on price and or fuel consumption

I agree, but you have to remember the people at the very top of racing are protecting the millions or billions spent developing their team/brand/image and or concept of what the sport should be. Those individuals don't always enjoy seeing all their hard work and effort erased by a couple of smart people in a shed with a good idea...