Learn me 16G turbos from EVO

Basically i've been seeing seemingly good EVO take off turbos for less than $200 at times so i'm curious about them for my Skyline. A company, Kinugawa, makes an exhaust housing that will bolt up to my exhaust and manifold for like $230. Seeing this makes me think I could get a turbo that will reach my goals for less than $500.

So i'm curious about the differences between turbos of difference Evos and which ones might work with a non-twin scroll old-tech car like mine.

My turbo knowledge is on the low side but i'm guessing that with Lancer Evolutions they eventually switch to a twin scroll setup and those might not be compatible?

Thanks for any help

Are you running them as twin-turbo? or just a single turbo setup?

yupididit wrote: Are you running them as twin-turbo? or just a single turbo setup?

Single turbo. It's a non-gtr with RB20DET

In the DSM community there is much debate over the benefit of twin scroll in an aftermarket setup. It makes sense. The science should be there, but it practical application minimal benefit is observed.

IMHO a 16g turbo is a little small for your application. They tap out under 350hp.

You would probably be happier with something like a 20g.

NordicSaab wrote: In the DSM community there is much debate over the benefit of twin scroll in an aftermarket setup. It makes sense. The science should be there, but it practical application minimal benefit is observed. IMHO a 16g turbo is a little small for your application. They tap out under 350hp. You would probably be happier with something like a 20g.

Actually i'm looking more for response and mid range over top end power. The RB20 is known to have quite poor response with larger turbos like the 20G and i'm looking to autocross this car. I'm only looking for around ~300whp and plus ditching a turbo with a ceramic wheel. On top of all of this I can get a decent 16G for little to nothing compared to what a good 20G would cost me.

I'm not looking at twin scroll vs aftermarket i'm just looking for what EVO take off turbos are not twin scroll so I can put it on my stock manifold with a turbine housing like this:

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/kinugawaturboturbinehousingnissanskylinerb20detrb25det10cmtd05ht3-3.aspx

Also wondering if later evo turbos with a non twin scroll housing would work or if those turbos are just totally different

Be warned that there are tons of fake 16G turbochargers out there.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212902

I'd do a bullet 20G compressor into the 16G housing

The stock evo 8/9 turbo is an awesome little dude if thats the turbo your talking about and not the dsm 16g. If the manifold is setup as twin scroll id go for it, might be the best turbo for your setup they spool very quickly but still flow 300+hp.

Do the 8/9 turbo spin backwards like the 10's turbo? that would be a real deal breaker. And do they have a normal td05H turbine wheel even though they're dual scroll?

I used a 16G from an EvoIII on my first gen eclipse with fairly good results. It did take a fair amount of work in getting the wastegate tight, eliminating boost leaks, etc. but when everything was right boost came on quickly and it pulled hard. I recall their being several variations of 16g that Mitsu used but am pretty sure the EvoIII was one of the better configurations. It definitely ran out of oomph when drag racing a car with an 8k rpm limit but never had a problem adding some mid range punch coming out of a corner.

I remember numbers like hitting 18psi around 2500rpm on a well tuned and great breathing engine. When using launch control and anti-lag (bang! bang!) I never really looked but data showed even better response.

Also, they can make 350+ horse but it takes a E36 M3 ton of work, if your goals are closer to 300 with quick spool I think that it would be a good fit for you. Make sure you have enough fuel to support it and simply bolting on some old school tech sounds like a good plan to me. Remember typical old car stuff that needs to be maintained and definitely has an effect on spool times.

drummerfromdefleopard wrote: I'd do a bullet 20G compressor into the 16G housing

I will probably run the 16g and if I feel I need more rebuild it to 20g

tb wrote: I used a 16G from an EvoIII on my first gen eclipse with fairly good results. It did take a fair amount of work in getting the wastegate tight, eliminating boost leaks, etc. but when everything was right boost came on quickly and it pulled hard. I recall their being several variations of 16g that Mitsu used but am pretty sure the EvoIII was one of the better configurations. It definitely ran out of oomph when drag racing a car with an 8k rpm limit but never had a problem adding some mid range punch coming out of a corner. I remember numbers like hitting 18psi around 2500rpm on a well tuned and great breathing engine. When using launch control and anti-lag (bang! bang!) I never really looked but data showed even better response. Also, they can make 350+ horse but it takes a E36 M3 ton of work, if your goals are closer to 300 with quick spool I think that it would be a good fit for you. Make sure you have enough fuel to support it and simply bolting on some old school tech sounds like a good plan to me. Remember typical old car stuff that needs to be maintained and definitely has an effect on spool times.

Thanks this is the info i'm looking for. All the drivetrain maintenance on this car is on point now. Also all I need left to upgrade is to upgrade the MAF to a Z32 unit and injectors which I plan on getting as well. Already have everything else I need. Probably ditching the Power FC for Nistune though because I could sell the power FC and get nistune + a turbo for what I can get for it.

I think that you will like it for a bolt on that gives decent gains with very quick spool and a fair amount of usable power.

IIRC my injector sizing went something like 450->560->680->880 while I kept adding boost and refining the rest of my setup. If you have a good management setup it is usually nice to get something too big and tune for it versus running too high a duty cycle and constantly upgrading...

I am a big fan of running smaller turbos and getting quick response versus bigger than needed and waiting for the huge power surge; not everyone agrees with that thinking but if it suits your style and needs I say give it a try.

Leafy wrote: Do the 8/9 turbo spin backwards like the 10's turbo? that would be a real deal breaker. And do they have a normal td05H turbine wheel even though they're dual scroll?

Yes they do. Whys that a deal breaker? Dual scroll just means there are two effective "channels" for the exhaust to spin the turbine one small one for quick spool one bigger path for higher rpm flow. They turbine housing is the dual scroll part so in certain cases you can swap between twin scroll and single scroll. Pretty sure the evo turbos are only twin scroll unless someone makes an aftermarket housing which wouldnt make it as awesome of a turbo

chiodos wrote:

Leafy wrote: Do the 8/9 turbo spin backwards like the 10's turbo? that would be a real deal breaker. And do they have a normal td05H turbine wheel even though they're dual scroll?

Yes they do. Whys that a deal breaker? Dual scroll just means there are two effective "channels" for the exhaust to spin the turbine one small one for quick spool one bigger path for higher rpm flow. They turbine housing is the dual scroll part so in certain cases you can swap between twin scroll and single scroll. Pretty sure the evo turbos are only twin scroll unless someone makes an aftermarket housing which wouldnt make it as awesome of a turbo

Well if the wheel spins the wrong way on the 8 and 9 turbo then it wont work in a normal housing because it'll be backwards. And if the ts wheel is different than the single scroll wheel it also wont fit in a normal housing.

chiodos wrote:

Leafy wrote: Do the 8/9 turbo spin backwards like the 10's turbo? that would be a real deal breaker. And do they have a normal td05H turbine wheel even though they're dual scroll?

Yes they do. Whys that a deal breaker? Dual scroll just means there are two effective "channels" for the exhaust to spin the turbine one small one for quick spool one bigger path for higher rpm flow. They turbine housing is the dual scroll part so in certain cases you can swap between twin scroll and single scroll. Pretty sure the evo turbos are only twin scroll unless someone makes an aftermarket housing which wouldnt make it as awesome of a turbo

Well if the turbine housing I listed above would fit it would be fine. I don't know if it would match though, I do know that it will work with regular DSM style 16Gs however.

The 16G is a terrifficly sized turbo for 2 liter engine. Keep in mind there are a few versions, the EVO 3 or big 16G, the EVO 8 and the EVO 9.

The EVO 3 is the one used on DSM's. Single scroll, 7cm2 turbine housing, the compressor housing is on the left as it is mounted on the engine.

The EVO 8 is twin scroll, 7cm2 turbine housing, and the compressor housing is on the right as it is mounted on the engine.

The EVO 9 changed the turbine housing to 10cm2. A little higher boost threshold and a little more top end potential than an EVO 8 turbo on the same engine.

I think the 16G, whatever the flavor, is one of the best balanced turbos for that sized engine. I have a 20G on my Galant VR4. I wanted a bit more power on crappy CA pump gas, but I think a 16G would be better in most situations.

Ah I think an Evo3Big16G is the best option. I ran that turbo for awhile on my Galant VR4 then I upgraded to a FP Green. I also think the hta68 is a great option if you can find a good price on one.