Learn me 1989 Alfa Spider

Family member is selling a 1989 Alpha Spider. Originol owner, Californa car. Well cared for, roughy 65000 miles. Whats the value these days? Trouble spots to look for? I'm thinking of it as a weekend toy / autocrosser with the occasional track day day thrown in.

That's the 'Graduate' type spider, right? Aka 105-series?

I think we've had a thread about those a couple of weeks back. Here you go: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/learn-me-alfa-romeo-spider/16292/page1/

that thread seemed to be geared to older 60's and 70's cars. I know the chassis are related, was hoping for later info on the electrics and injection.

Ah, well, the value is, uh, not much really. Personally I think that's a good thing - more affordable for those who want to drive them!

The '89 has the later instrument pod ('86 and up) verses the older Bosch-injected Spiders that have the nice-looking twin gauge pods. It also has the center console that features a bent shifter poking out at a somewhat odd angle (at least I think it's different than the pre-'86 shifter rod, or maybe it's just the console).

The Bosch injection system is reliable, though not terribly tunable. I'll make a list of a few things to check:

1. Rear wheel bearings
2. Guibo on the transmission
3. driveshaft u-joints
4. ALL of the wiring harness ground points on the engine (look around the intake manifold). You want to pull these and clean them up. All manner of strange and so-not-wonderful things will happen when they get corroded and the grounds go bad.
5. Front wheel bearings
6. water pump
7. head gasket - they last 30-60K miles.
8. exhaust manifold nuts & studs
9. 2nd gear syncro. If it's not bad yet it's about to be bad.
10. Rear axle - listen for noise, and feel for slop in the input. Pinion bearings sometimes go bad, the seal will eventually fail, and the ring&pinion will get sloppy after many miles (like most older cars).
11. RUST in the floors, around the base of the windshield, in the quarterpanels, in the trunk, and especially in the rocker panels.
12. Look under the nose and see if there is any body damage. It's very fragile in there.
13. Look at the hood for a dent over the oil cap. If found, you know the car drove over something and hit it with the oil pan. Check the lower oil pan for scrapes and missing fins, and for leaks.
14. Front and rear main seals on the engine.
15. The catalytic converter gets really buzzy on these cars, check for that.
16. Heat shields can come loose and lay on the exhaust, making an irritating noise.
17. The plastic rear window in the top should be checked, of course.
18. Check the rear axle limit straps. They rot.
19. Check the valve clearances. Alfa never did use particularly hard valve seats on these cars.
20. Check the quarter panels for small creases over the center of the wheel arches. Outward, vertical creases indicate a rear collision and a weak rear structure.

drmike wrote: Ah, well, the value is, uh, not much really. Personally I think that's a good thing - more affordable for those who want to drive them! The '89 has the later instrument pod ('86 and up) verses the older Bosch-injected Spiders that have the nice-looking twin gauge pods. It also has the center console that features a bent shifter poking out at a somewhat odd angle (at least I think it's different than the pre-'86 shifter rod, or maybe it's just the console). The Bosch injection system is reliable, though not terribly tunable. I'll make a list of a few things to check: 1. Rear wheel bearings 2. Guibo on the transmission 3. driveshaft u-joints 4. ALL of the wiring harness ground points on the engine (look around the intake manifold). You want to pull these and clean them up. All manner of strange and so-not-wonderful things will happen when they get corroded and the grounds go bad. 5. Front wheel bearings 6. water pump 7. head gasket - they last 30-60K miles. 8. exhaust manifold nuts & studs 9. 2nd gear syncro. If it's not bad yet it's about to be bad. 10. Rear axle - listen for noise, and feel for slop in the input. Pinion bearings sometimes go bad, the seal will eventually fail, and the ring&pinion will get sloppy after many miles (like most older cars). 11. RUST in the floors, around the base of the windshield, in the quarterpanels, in the trunk, and especially in the rocker panels. 12. Look under the nose and see if there is any body damage. It's very fragile in there. 13. Look at the hood for a dent over the oil cap. If found, you know the car drove over something and hit it with the oil pan. Check the lower oil pan for scrapes and missing fins, and for leaks. 14. Front and rear main seals on the engine. 15. The catalytic converter gets really buzzy on these cars, check for that. 16. Heat shields can come loose and lay on the exhaust, making an irritating noise. 17. The plastic rear window in the top should be checked, of course. 18. Check the rear axle limit straps. They rot. 19. Check the valve clearances. Alfa never did use particularly hard valve seats on these cars. 20. Check the quarter panels for small creases over the center of the wheel arches. Outward, vertical creases indicate a rear collision and a weak rear structure.

^^^^^Now that's an answer. Good job.

What? I thought the answer to 'cheap convertible' is always Miata?

Datsun1500 wrote: Miata is the answer for cheap convertible but this poster wants a cheap convertible with some personality, hence not Miata

Oh come now, my '94 Miata is full of personality. It also gets me to work every day. I couldn't say the same for my Alfas - any of the 6 or so streetable ones I owned over the years.

Gearheadotaku wrote: Family member is selling a 1989 Alpha Spider.

In the name of all that is Holy, it's Alfa not Alpha. This grates on my brain just like "disc breaks". Ugh.

Sorry, back to actual tech...

ddavidv wrote:

Gearheadotaku wrote: Family member is selling a 1989 Alpha Spider.

In the name of all that is Holy, it's Alfa not Alpha. This grates on my brain just like "disc breaks". Ugh. Sorry, back to actual tech...

oops, you are certianly correct. Don't know how many times I've made that goof. I did spell it right in the title though. At least I can spell brakes. Until they break. Then they are broken.

As far as cheap, that wasn't the total goal. I know it will be more expensive than a Miata, just wanted to check out an oppurtunity. Car is in A-1 shape, looking for common failure points, etc.

In reply to drmike:

Now thats what I'm lookin for!

You mentioned the ECU not easy to tune. Cams and exhaust work a bad idea then?

I dont think exhaust work will create a problem, cams im not sure. There are tons of suspension parts modfication parts available for them, so making it handle better should be pretty easy, but other than headers and exhaust systems i dont really know what people do for performance modifications. I do know there are supercharged ones still running the l-jet though.

Tyler H wrote: What? I thought the answer to 'cheap convertible' is always Miata?

Oh, don't worry, it still is. Did you see that list above?!?

Gearheadotaku wrote: that thread seemed to be geared to older 60's and 70's cars. I know the chassis are related, was hoping for later info on the electrics and injection.

drmike's reply is much better than mine, but I can add that the lady I know who owns one says she likes the electronic injection on the late car much better than the Spica stuff on the early car she had in college.

Gearheadotaku wrote: In reply to drmike: Now thats what I'm lookin for! You mentioned the ECU not easy to tune. Cams and exhaust work a bad idea then?

You can definitely do some exhaust work - the L-Jetronic will keep up with that. Cams were never much more than an expensive way to have a lumpy idle, at least back around 1988-1993 when I was far more involved with the Bosch Spiders.

I remember reading a blog that someone kept on modding an L-Jetronic ECU. That was years ago. I don't see that now, but I do see this:

modding the AFM

The vane-type airflow meter is the biggest restriction on engine performance on the L-Jetronic Alfas. Bigger cams can't do much if the engine has to suck through a soda straw. The '91-'93 Spiders with Bosch Motronic FI are possibly more tunable - at least the Motronic is far more sophisticated (read, actually has a CPU inside instead of merely an analog computer).

i'd watch the Top Gear Alfa special. They all love alfa's,

but i think it was Clarkson that said "Alfa makes car's that are as good as a car can be...briefly..."

hey i have a relative who's thinking of getting rid of his late 80's spider... i'll see him tomorrow i'll ask him about it

speaking of alfas, its a good thing i don't have $5000 and a space in my garage http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALFA-ROMEO-ALFETTA-SPORT-SEDAN-VERY-RARE_W0QQitemZ200410326248QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2ea962e4e8#ht_500wt_1182 i've always wanted one of these

Could swap in an Alfa V6. What an incredible motor. And the exhaust note. It's been done before.

In reply to rufledt: I've had a couple of Alfettas. I'd keep the five grand...

Gearheadotaku wrote: that thread seemed to be geared to older 60's and 70's cars. I know the chassis are related, was hoping for later info on the electrics and injection.

Agreed, it kinda was. The chassis is actually the same, not only related. There are a few changes in the sheet metal over time but everything underneath with the exception of the engine management is straight out of the sixties.

I wouldnt spend $5k on an alfetta either, especially a rusty one. There is a perfect milano in craigslist here for $6k, and IMO they are way better cars. The only thing thats nice about the alfetta is it handles better becasue there is less weight in the front.

Thanks for all the input everyone!

easy way around the bosch injection.. megasquirt