Learn Me: 90-93 Integras

Hey guys, I need some advice/knowledge here.

So I decided to slow down my 5.0 E36 project and try to do it perfect the first time all around. I plan on stripping the car down completely, probably gonna take at least a year. The problem with that is I still have nothing to race this season and the season is already here!

I want something for DD duty (jeep gets -12,000 mpg) and lots of autoX. May also do more time trials events and a rallyx or two. The integra seems to have everything I want:

-Super reliable, cheap and easy to fix. My DD beater 88 had over 300K, ran like a top and got well over 30 mpg. -Can be found in good running condition in the $1000-1500 range. Although finding one that hasnt been messed with too much is a concern. -Aftermarket parts are cheap and available. -I LOVE LOVE LOVE the body style, both 2 and 4 door.

So my questions:

Are these good autoX cars? This season I don't wanna put much money into it, good tires, worn pieces replaced, etc. Is there a particular class they do well in?

What kind of mods should I throw at it off the bat besides tires and replacing any worn components/maintenance items?

Any other general words of wisdom? Or possibly suggestions for comparable cars?

Thanks guys and gals!

Josh

I had a 1991 GS and have regretted trading it in for the last 10 years... mine was bone stock and was my DD for 154K miles (had 75K when purchased in '96, traded in '02).

I was never able to auto-x it, but I can offer some of the 'issues' that eventually led to me letting it go:

The car was pre-air bags, but post-SRS, so it had automatic seat belt "mice" along the a-pillar and roof. They were really freakin' annoying. And often got caught on the sun visor if I accidentally left it in the side position.

The door windows were 'frameless' but it lacked the auto-drop feature of cars like the MINI have. The glass would often catch on the window gasket. Sometimes dropping the window and raising it would seat it. Sometimes not. Repeated trips to the dealer never seemed to fix it (I had this car during my "I ain't wrenching on cars..." phase).

The last straw was when the blower motor went and like many modern cars, it appears they hung a blower motor on a hook in the factory and then assembled the car around it.

I didn't have any rust issues, but this was 10 years ago when the car was only 11 years old. I rarely see a non-rusty 2nd gen Integra around here (when I see one at all). I used to see them all the time, but they're rather rare here in the rust belt (northeast).

Typical of a Honda, the drivetrain was great - 229K of abusive 20-something (me) driving and it still ran great when I got rid of it. Original clutch, even. It saw triple digit hwy speeds on a regular basis (younger and dumber back then...). Unfortunately, the body was falling apart around it.

I understand most Civic parts from the same era bolt on, so performance upgrades are plenty. I've seen reasonsably priced turbo kits still available.

Ian F wrote: I had a 1991 GS and have regretted trading it in for the last 10 years... mine was bone stock and was my DD for 154K miles (had 75K when purchased in '96, traded in '02). I was never able to auto-x it, but I can offer some of the 'issues' that eventually led to me letting it go: The car was pre-air bags, but post-SRS, so it had automatic seat belt "mice" along the a-pillar and roof. They were really freakin' annoying. And often got caught on the sun visor if I accidentally left it in the side position. The door windows were 'frameless' but it lacked the auto-drop feature of cars like the MINI have. The glass would often catch on the window gasket. Sometimes dropping the window and raising it would seat it. Sometimes not. Repeated trips to the dealer never seemed to fix it (I had this car during my "I ain't wrenching on cars..." phase). The last straw was when the blower motor went and like many modern cars, it appears they hung a blower motor on a hook in the factory and then assembled the car around it. I didn't have any rust issues, but this was 10 years ago when the car was only 11 years old. I rarely see a non-rusty 2nd gen Integra around here (when I see one at all). I used to see them all the time, but they're rather rare here in the rust belt (northeast). Typical of a Honda, the drivetrain was great - 229K of abusive 20-something (me) driving and it still ran great when I got rid of it. Original clutch, even. It saw triple digit hwy speeds on a regular basis (younger and dumber back then...). Unfortunately, the body was falling apart around it. I understand most Civic parts from the same era bolt on, so performance upgrades are plenty. I've seen reasonsably priced turbo kits still available.

Thanks for the input! Luckily rust isn't a problem up where I live at all, so finding a rust free one wouldn't be hard. Even a lot of classic cars up here are rust free!

I do HATE the auto belts, but its not a deal breaker for me. I assume you can detach the belt from the mouse thing correct?

Anyway to put normal seatbelts in a 2G integra? Maybe from a different year?

I too have a soft spot for the styling of those integras. The motherberkeleying auto seatbelts annoy me to no end. I think the Japanese didn't fall for that BS and there might still be holes where regular belts can go. I know on the 89-93 Nissan 240sx you could ditch the auto belts and bolt in regular ones.

CLNSC3 wrote: I do HATE the auto belts, but its not a deal breaker for me. I assume you can detach the belt from the mouse thing correct? Anyway to put normal seatbelts in a 2G integra? Maybe from a different year?

Yes, you can unclick the belt from the mouse, but the shoulder and lap belts are completely separate so that doesn't make it any less annoying. There are two belt reels - one for the lap belt in the normal spot and then another for the shoulder belt at the tunnel.

I'm not sure if they ever put airbags in 2G cars at all since the body style didn't last long, so I don't know if it can be converted.

My 1989 Maxima had the same type seat belts. The sunvisor is designed to break easily too, so i replaced a few of them.

CLNSC3 wrote: I want something for DD duty (jeep gets -12,000 mpg)

Dude, nothing is going to beat that for MPG. Just saying.

...and the only reason I miss my old car is because it would have been a perfect candidate to gut into a racecar. For DD use, it was basically 'done'.

I'm not big into autocross, but they make great track cars. The seatbelts are my #1 complaint with them. The holes exist, but not the threaded nuts. You can get the belts and interior trim pieces from Canadian models (g2ic.com or ebay), but you'll need to have someone weld in nuts on the inside of the b-pillar. It's not impossible, but it's not easy either.

The ICU (separate from the ECU) controls the intermittent wipers, the oil dummy light, turn signals/flashers, and a bunch of other things, and it goes bad in much the same way that Hondas of that era lose main relays. It's typical to start losing some or all of that functionality as the car ages. My intermittent wipers don't work, and I replaced my oil dummy light with pressure gauge.

Other than that, they're like long wheel-base civics with 4-wheel disks and decent motors. The rear trailing arm bushings crack and rip, the motor mounts crack and rip, and you'll periodically have idle issues as the 20 year old emissions equipment starts to flake out, but nothing that should dissuade you from buying one.

jimbob_racing wrote:

CLNSC3 wrote: I want something for DD duty (jeep gets -12,000 mpg)

Dude, nothing is going to beat that for MPG. Just saying.

Thats NEGATIVE 12,000

Thanks for the input everybody! I think this may be my "stand-in" fun car until my other project gets finished.

Good to know about the Canadian seatbelts, I can easily weld a nut in there. That would be well worth the effort to get rid of the annoying 90's seatbelts! Or I could leave them, grab my big brick phone and drive around bumping Ice Ice Baby while wear acid washed jeans, a black leather jacket and converse all stars....

steronz said: I'm not big into autocross, but they make great track cars.

Thats good to hear, because I prefer the track. AutoX is just cheaper and more accessible. What class do you run yours in? Josh

Besides the GSR, are there any major differences between the GS, LS and RS? All the stupid little crap like power windows/doors/sunroof doesn't matter. I am talking about any major mechanical differences.

I think I will probably go with a 4 door, for the reason that they are less likely to have been beat on by kids for the past 10 or so years and I think they command less money as well. Weight difference is minimal, 40-60 lbs between a coupe and sedan depending on year and which source to believe.

Any particular reason to choose one trim package over another or a 2 door over a 4 door? I have the mind set right now that no matter the trim level, etc if the car is a good deal and in good shape I'll jump.

Generally speaking, RS -> LS -> GS in terms of increasing options. The RS usually doesn't have a sunroof, and came with crank windows and manual locks. The GS was more likely to have leather and/or ABS. That said, everything was an option at the time, so there was nothing stopping someone from ordering an LS and adding leather seats as an option. There's all manner of crazy combinations that left dealer lots. If you can find an RS, I'd jump on that, but you've got the right idea with finding a car in good shape first and worrying about what options it had second. I'd say ABS is the only major mechanical difference between the 3 trim levels. I'm partial to the sedan myself, but I can't make a compelling argument as to why.

Mine was a GS coupe and was fairly well optioned: just about power everything, cruise control, leather seats. I 'think' I upgraded the stereo while I had it.

The GS came with a rear spoiler, which was somewhat amusing. When you got close to the century mark, the generally decorative spoiler actually started to work, pushing the rear end down and lifting the nose up. Oddly enough, when I put a Thule roof rack on top with an air deflector, that negated the effect. Probably lost some all out top speed, but it gained stability. (Again: this was all 10+ years ago - I tend to stay closer to the speed limit these days. )

As far as seat belts go, just come up to Canada and visit a junkyard. We didn't get roped into the liver splitting mousebelts up here. As a matter of fact, I just threw a whole set away last year when I built the 91 Chumptegra.

Timely!!!

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/reunited-and-it-feels-so-good/49019/page1/#post868589

Did the RS have decapitator belts??? They suck ass, and the car is really heavy. Aside from that, I love it.

I auto-xed it a few times in GS on real street tires and stock struts. Again, very predictable. Throw the anchor out and trail brake, and the ass will come around nicely.

4-door GSR is on my "want" list.

MMMMMMMMMMM HAWT.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: MMMMMMMMMMM HAWT.

That car - or an indentical one - was a featured car at the Carlisle import show a couple of years ago, noted for being so original and unmolested. The owner was a guy in his 50's or 60's and IIRC bought it new.

CLNSC3 wrote:

jimbob_racing wrote:

CLNSC3 wrote: I want something for DD duty (jeep gets -12,000 mpg)

Dude, nothing is going to beat that for MPG. Just saying.

Thats NEGATIVE 12,000

Totally fine, just drive backwards.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: MMMMMMMMMMM HAWT.

Oh yeah, I like that a lot!

steronz wrote: Generally speaking, RS -> LS -> GS in terms of increasing options. The RS usually doesn't have a sunroof, and came with crank windows and manual locks. The GS was more likely to have leather and/or ABS. That said, everything was an option at the time, so there was nothing stopping someone from ordering an LS and adding leather seats as an option. There's all manner of crazy combinations that left dealer lots. If you can find an RS, I'd jump on that, but you've got the right idea with finding a car in good shape first and worrying about what options it had second. I'd say ABS is the only major mechanical difference between the 3 trim levels. I'm partial to the sedan myself, but I can't make a compelling argument as to why.

Very helpful information, thank you! I will most likely end up with the 4 door partially because it is nearly impossible to find a coupe in good shape and partially because its different.

poopshovel wrote: Timely!!! http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/reunited-and-it-feels-so-good/49019/page1/#post868589 Did the RS have decapitator belts??? They suck ass, and the car is really heavy. Aside from that, I love it. I auto-xed it a few times in GS on real street tires and stock struts. Again, very predictable. Throw the anchor out and trail brake, and the ass will come around nicely. 4-door GSR is on my "want" list.

I actually read that thread and it made me think a little harder about going with the integra, its one of the options I had been considering.

tuna55 wrote:

CLNSC3 wrote:

jimbob_racing wrote:

CLNSC3 wrote: I want something for DD duty (jeep gets -12,000 mpg)

Dude, nothing is going to beat that for MPG. Just saying.

Thats NEGATIVE 12,000

Totally fine, just drive backwards.

Hmmm....I'll have to give that a try today!

I will add one thing of note... Some of the Integra parts of that generation are discontinued...

Damn, That green was was just like the car I had. 1992 GSR in the green. Very fun car. I broke the timing belt that the PO promised me was replaced and the original motor was never the same. Then, the car got flooded in new orleans in a flash flood and someon backed over the front of the car in the quarter. That car was cursed.

Overall though. Awesome car and I would get another in a heartbeat.

noddaz wrote: I will add one thing of note... Some of the Integra parts of that generation are discontinued...

Already? Wow...I assume there are other civic/integra bits that you can utilize though?

Been looking around and DAMN its hard to find one that hasn't been owned/beaten on/"modified" by eight consecutive 16 year old owners!