In addition to front camber bolts I'm thinking about getting an adjustable rear panhard bar on my '14 Mustang. If I dial in more negative camber on the panhard bar, will that move the rear suspension off-center? Would this have any ill effects? Is there any other (easy) way to adjust the rear camber on a car with a live axle?
Not sure what you're really asking here. The only way I know to adjust the camber on a live axle is to bend the axle tubes. I'm not sure what panhard adjustment has for an effect, but it just limits lateral movement of the axle. I'm sure some more knowledgeable members will chime in shortly.
The purpose of a panhard bar is to eliminate side to side movement of the rear axle. If the bar itself is adjustable, it can be used to center the axle if it's slightly off center. If the mounting points are adjustable it is to adjust the roll center. It has no effect on camber.
Recently installed Steeda Sport springs on an '05 S197. Advertised drop 1.0" front and 1.25" rear. After settling, the rear axle was off center by almost 3/8", not very noticeable and still driveable. I went w/ a BMR adjustable PHB, stout unit w/ poly bushings and zerks for lubing (synthetic grease only).
Easy install and adjustment. W/ plumb bob on fender lip measure to wheel lip, adjust till equal side to side , lock down nuts. I went w/ a BMR PHB chassis brace too for a little over $100. After seeing the stamped factory piece it's a worthy upgrade IMO.
The '14 should be similar as it's the last of the S197 platform. YMMV tho.
Yeah on a live axle I'm pretty sure the only way to change camber is to bend the axle itself.
Also watts link > panhard bar.
Mmadness wrote: If I dial in more negative camber on the panhard bar, will that move the rear suspension off-center?
Like the other guys said, you'd be a magician because a Panhard has zero to do with camber. And grinking the axle casing is also a bad way to go as it sets you up for bearing problems.
Just be happy with the Panhard doing it's job to keep the axle centred.
Now if you'd waiting a year to buy your car, there are indications that the 2015 WILL have IRS.
GameboyRMH wrote: Yeah on a live axle I'm pretty sure the only way to change camber is to bend the axle itself. Also watts link > panhard bar.
While theoretically correct, I'm not sure that always applies in reality. A typical Watts linkage is a lot heavier than a Panhard bar, takes up more room that can create exhaust and/or sway bar issues, and a well designed panhard bar doesn't move the axle enough to worry about.
In reply to wspohn:
No indications, it WILL have an IRS.
wspohn wrote:Mmadness wrote: If I dial in more negative camber on the panhard bar, will that move the rear suspension off-center?Like the other guys said, you'd be a magician because a Panhard has zero to do with camber. And grinking the axle casing is also a bad way to go as it sets you up for bearing problems. Just be happy with the Panhard doing it's job to keep the axle centred. Now if you'd waiting a year to buy your car, there are indications that the 2015 WILL have IRS.
I heard that in addition to centering the suspension, a Panhard bar could be used to adjust the camber on the car, but it looks like that may not be true.
In reply to Mmadness:
No doubt about it, it will not do anything to change camber. Think about it. How could it?
On a solid rear axle RWD car camber is fixed at 0, as is toe, any deviation means the axle tubes and/or axles shafts are bent. IIRC they do use bent axles tubes in NASCAR, but that's a car that goes maybe 600 miles between rebuilds.
In reply to Kenny_McCormic:
Do you think camber isn't adjustable on the rear of a solid axle car, and that the only way to change camber is to bend the tubes? Do you?
There is no camber in rear stick axles.
... unless NASCAR or Smokey Yunick
In reply to fasted58:
I'm confused. Could you tell me again?
Smokey = magician 
In reply to bravenrace:
You tell me as you have a card up yur sleeve.
Offset bearings. Stagger don't count.
In reply to fasted58:
Holy crap!!! I do have a card up my sleeve!!! Its a joker.
In reply to bravenrace:
I suppose you could induce flex in the shaft via offset bearings or something to that effect. This would be hell on the bearings and carrier though, unless you fitted the tubes with support bearings and/or managed to cram some self aligning bearings in there and put the wheel bearing pocket in the tube offset.
...Or you could use a full floating rear end assembly with crowned axle splines.
I've got a book from 2006 or so that goes into detail about Aussie V8 Supercars and how they make their stick axles adjustable for camber. Trick, but expensive. This was before they went to the common chassis they are running now. I just can't find the book right now. Watts links are good if you like to tell everyone you have a watts link. But a lowered phb gets you pretty much the same performance for a lot less money. Provided you know how to weld the lowering brackets on. I've got a lowered phb on my 4th gen Camaro.
In reply to Driven5:
It would need to be a proper full floater with two sets of tapered roller bearings in the hub. I'm also not so sure there's enough surface area on the splines to run them that way and hold up. The best approach would likely be similar to the method GM used to do the curved driveshaft on the Pontiac tempest. Take a full floater, cut the tube near the housing, flange the tubes, press in two or three bearings into the stub coming off the pig, then shim the flanges to get whatever alignment you want and clamp a rubber ring around to to seal.
Way back, the prof. for my suspensions class talked about working for a Chevy dealer in the '60's and the instruction from corporate was that the '65 (or so, this was in the late 90's so grain of salt) A-body cars like the Malibu had improper toe in the rear. What? Yeah, so the fix was a set of instructions on how to use a come-along and some chains to bend the axle to provide a very tiny amount of toe in on the rear.
When I asked what GM suggested to keep leaks at the 3rd member at bay, where the tubes meet the housing, he said "windshield sealant applied around the tube". Dude was kind of crazy though so grain of salt. I imagine the same kind of horrible idea could be used to correct or change rear camber.
bravenrace wrote:GameboyRMH wrote: Yeah on a live axle I'm pretty sure the only way to change camber is to bend the axle itself. Also watts link > panhard bar.While theoretically correct, I'm not sure that always applies in reality. A typical Watts linkage is a lot heavier than a Panhard bar, takes up more room that can create exhaust and/or sway bar issues, and a well designed panhard bar doesn't move the axle enough to worry about.
I have a Fays2 Watt's link I got from another forum member on my 2013 and I like it. I'm not terribly concerned about weight because, let's face it, the 'Stang is heavy anyways and most of the Fays2's weight is sprung, not unsprung. However, it's a major PITA to install without a lift and since it is all rod ends, it can get noisy. I do need to put something on the rod ends to keep them clean (motorcycle chain lube)?
Anything is better than the stock PHB. The rear axle feels vastly more planted with the Fays2 in place than the factory toothpick. I haven't had any interference issues with the exhaust or sway bar.
Driven5 wrote: ...Or you could use a full floating rear end assembly with crowned axle splines.
Probably not cheap, but there are a few suppliers out there, some marketing towards the pro touring crowd others marketing towards more handling oriented motorsports.
In reply to Kenny_McCormic:
You are hypothesizing how it could be done without bent tubes. I was simply illustrating how it is done.
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