Learn me B5 Audi S4

I'm thinking this is probably the cheapest non muscle car horsepower I can get my hands on. A tune, simple bolt ons, and some 1800 dollar turbo upgrades and it looks like I'm seeing damn close to 500awhp/awtq. Tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly. How can it be made reliable (automatically assuming it's not because Audi).

Thanks

There is no way you get close to 500whp out of one of those with bolt ons without blowing things up, but I'm just guessing.

Harvey wrote: There is no way you get close to 500whp out of one of those with bolt ons without blowing things up, but I'm just guessing.

Probably not, but there is a lot of potential in that motor from what I've heard.

It's an early 2000s Audi. The suspension has a million bushings that only last 30k miles. The whole front of the car has to come off to work on the engine, though that's fortunately not all that hard to do. It's reaching the point in age where all the rubber and electrical stuff is going to start failing and causing weird problems.

I think they are awesome, and I've looked at them seriously several times. But I'm scared.....

Ummm. I've owned three of those. 500awhp is NOT $1800 away. Not even close. Not even the same galaxy.

You can get 400awhp pretty easily by swapping on a set of K04 turbo's, an exhaust, gutting the stock pre cats, intercooler upgrade, injectors and a tune. Figure at least $4000 in parts for that, than another $2000 in labor if you aren't doing it yourself.

To add another 100awhp requires changing out the rods, running much larger turbos, etc, etc, etc. So add much more money basically.

Buying any used Audi, but especially one of these, it all comes down to maintenance records. Don't buy a cheap, neglected example! Spend WELL ABOVE book value to get an adult owned, properly maintained (with records!!) car. You'll save so much more money that way...

Tom_Spangler wrote: There is no way you get close to 500whp out of one of those with bolt ons without blowing things up, but I'm just guessing.

Probably not, but there is a lot of potential in that motor from what I've heard.

80ft/lb/cylinder is a safe figure for VWAG until you need to upgrade the rods.

It's an early 2000s Audi. The suspension has a million bushings that only last 30k miles.

Maybe in the desert. I've customers with 250k on B5s with the original front end parts. I am assuming this urban legend came from shops who don't diagnose, just shotgun parts. Then install them badly, like tightening the bolts with the suspension drooped, which always kills bushings fast. Then you are in a moron-driven endless cycle of failure.

The whole front of the car has to come off to work on the engine, though that's fortunately not all that hard to do.

Except you don't, unless you're the type of person who strips naked in order to use a urinal. Unbolt the "lock carrier" from the fenders and bumper support and slide it forward four-five inches on a pair of long M8 bolts liberated from a Miata transmission case. The world opens up and you don't even have to disconnect any hoses aside from the coolant tank and intercooler hoses. Audi thoughtfully put big S-bends in the other ones just for this purpose.

I think they are awesome, and I've looked at them seriously several times. But I'm scared.....

I say Passat W8 because turbos freakin' suck and I'm turning into an old fart who just wants to leave it stock.

Knurled wrote: Maybe in the desert. I've customers with 250k on B5s with the original front end parts. I am assuming this urban legend came from shops who don't diagnose, just shotgun parts. Then install them badly, like tightening the bolts with the suspension drooped, which always kills bushings fast. Then you are in a moron-driven endless cycle of failure.

Here in CA (not quite the desert, but with the drought who knows what's on the horizon) it's about 60-70K for front end bushings on B5/B6/B7. I bought my B5 brand-new in 2000, so unless they installed them improperly at the factory the replacement at 60K wasn't caused by torquing them wrong.

I like my B6 more than I liked the B5. The V8 is better stock vs stock, while the biturbo is capable of more power when modified. I'm not a fan of modifying Audis, because there's too much stuff that requires a lift to get access to. My B5 was bone stock 'til I sold it, my B6 is bone stock except for adjustable upper front control arms so I can give it more camber. My modification impulses get redirected into the Miata. :)

It seems the easy button to big power twin turbo v6 would be 300zx tt....

Stage 3 power from a 2.7TT isn't terribly difficult to get to (400+ ho/tq) and the driveline can handle it pretty well unless you beat on it. Move up to 500 hp however and you've doubled the factory output. Cars with double (and more) their factory horsepower get into an endless loop of "find the weak link". Will it be a CV joint this week or will the clutch shrapnel? Is a bearing going to self destruct or is the transfer case going to become ventilated?

All these thought are simply my opinions and YMMV but I'd rather "tune" a car to where it felt good and had the performance I enjoyed/wanted rather than simply to achieve an arbitrary number.

Nice thing about Audis is that they use the same old stuff since forever. One of the urq guys with 700ish horsepower finds that the axleshafts can twist 360 degrees before they will break. CVs not an issue, drivetrain isn't much of an issue (the 01E is what people swap in if you manage to break the old 016s or just want a Torsen diff instead of a locker).

Is one of the reasons I am such a fan of longitudinal VWAG products. The drivetrains are incredibly stout from engine to pavement.