Learn Me: Classic Car Basics

So here's the background: My Dad loves cars but can't do any work to them himself. I've been slowly working for several years to make sure I don't end up the same way but that's the boat he's in. He wants to get some sort of classic car to cruise around in. It doesn't have to be fast or desirable. His strong preference would be for it to be a Ford; but even a nice, reliable, Pinto or Maverick would be fine with him. I think he would enjoy anything as long as its old, and he'll think it's cool even if it's only cool because you never see that type of car. Anyways, i found this reasonably close to us: http://www.autotraderclassics.com/classic-car/1964-Ford-Falcon-846648.xhtml?conversationId=127144

Could a car like this actually be a reliable cruiser on nice days or will it constantly be in the shop because it is almost 50 years old? What would we look for when test driving a classic car? All the normal used car stuff (rust, etc) but anything special on old cars? Keeping a close eye on the temp came to mind.... Any specific Ford models that may be around in good, reliable running condition that can typically be had for under 10K?

Any information is appreciated. I like classic cars as much as the next guy but I'm not really up on what I need to know to advise someone on buying one.

Classic cars of the 60's and newer are reliable enough to use on a regular basis provided they are maintained. Myself, I am not comfortable with cars older than this unless they have been hot-rodded so they can keep up with freeway traffic.

A competent mechanic will be able to access and repair any car of this era, and if you stick with the domestics that you mention, even parts will be relatively simple to obtain. If you are not experienced, do not buy a car without some guidance, some people are very good at selling polished turds.

Unless you are wanting to learn bodywork skills and end up underwater financially on the car, do not buy a car that needs ANY bodywork. Unless you can live with the color and condition of the paint for five years or more, keep looking.

Often the best deal is to find a car that was restored five to ten years ago and the owner now want to move-on. You should be able to buy this for about half of what the owner invested. Insist on pictures of the restoration or keep looking. Nobody restores a car without pictures, so if they "don't exist" or "got lost" they are hiding something. If you don't know the difference between good work and bad work when looking at pics, find someone who does.

What you will find with most older restorations is that as the owner got tired of the car, he also got tired of spending time and money to maintain it. As such, it will take a bit of sorting to bring up to reliable standards. This is where the maxim that "the more you drive a classic car, the more reliable it becomes", is evident.

ps. The Falcon you show is cool, but sets off alarms.

RUST! , or more specifically, the "Car flipper's screw job" rust cover up. The biggest worry with old cars is to make sure you aren't buying something that is full of plaster, chicken wire, old news paper, and drums of bondo. Beware of fresh paint. Get under the car, check the pans and frame rails, check behind panels and under trim as much as you can. Also make sure the car has never been wrecked as well as you can. Key areas to look are the core support, front and rear frame extensions, etc.

Body and chassis condition should be your main focus. Mechanical problems, such as drivertain, brake, and suspension issues are much easier and cheaper to fix than rust.

The Falcon/ranchero is a good choice for a first vintage car because most parts are reproduced and reasonably priced.

Also, be prepared to find out the car's secrets after you get it home. Buying a vintage car is most always followed by having to correct some unforseen issues, it's just the way it goes.

Anyway, good luck, pick a good one, and enjoy.

NOHOME hits it on the head. Print out his post for future reference. It's that good.

Any FoMoCo product of the sixties should be a simple car to own. May as well find something he's really interested in vs taking something just because it's for sale in your price range. I suggest narrowing it down to cars that really make him smile. Doesn't matter if it's a Mustang or a Galaxy.

A Falcon is a very good choice (I'm actually going to shop for one for my next purchase). It's not as commonplace as a Mustang but is equally economical to run and parts availability is quite good. The bigger cars are a little more difficult to find certain things for, but you're not shopping for a resto project so that won't be such a big factor. Settle on a model or two and immerse yourself in the world...join the appropriate club now, not later. Make friends with other owners, ask them for advice, see if any may be willing to go see a potential car with you.

As to the Ranchero you posted...I think it's a bit high on the money for what I'm seeing. Formerly gold, painted Resale Red, only a six cylinder, bogus home-made door panels and a cheezy aftermarket steering wheel all tell me this thing is a bit cobbled together. I've seen them nicer for the same or less money.

I'd like to repeat, buy the best body and paint job you can find. You can redo and replace chrome bits at your leisure, rebuild brake systems pretty easily and fix oil leaks as they happen. Not hard to find a little old garage somewhere to do some of the mechanical stuff you don't want to tackle. But it's nigh impossible to find anyone to do rust repair or body restorations that won't charge you the asking price of that Ranchero or more. Find a solid original, or one that someone else is losing their ass on. Be patient, and wait for the right car. Know that it's okay to walk away from something if it just doesn't feel quite right. No shame in that.

ddavidv wrote: As to the Ranchero you posted...I think it's a bit high on the money for what I'm seeing. Formerly gold, painted Resale Red, only a six cylinder, bogus home-made door panels and a cheezy aftermarket steering wheel all tell me this thing is a bit cobbled together. I've seen them nicer for the same or less money.

And no pictures of the underside of the car in the ad is a BIG hint that something's a little off.

ddavidv wrote: I'd like to repeat, buy the best body and paint job you can find. You can redo and replace chrome bits at your leisure, rebuild brake systems pretty easily and fix oil leaks as they happen. Not hard to find a little old garage somewhere to do some of the mechanical stuff you don't want to tackle. But it's nigh impossible to find anyone to do rust repair or body restorations that won't charge you the asking price of that Ranchero or more. Find a solid original, or one that someone else is losing their ass on. Be patient, and wait for the right car. Know that it's okay to walk away from something if it just doesn't feel quite right. No shame in that.

R'amen. Walk early, walk often. Bring a magnet (yes, really!) when you check the car. I used to bring a screwdriver as well, but the sellers usually get angry when you poke a hole in their inadequate repairs. Go figure!

Concentrate on the lower sheetmetal, especially the rocker panels and the floors. Structural integrity is everything if you're not a rich guy.

Aside to the regulars: Didn't Tim & Co. mention in CM that the first Edsel they looked at was in much worse shape than the owner thought it was? IIRC, they didn't buy that one, and the owner was PO'd when it was placed on the lift and the CM crew discovered how much had been botched.

To the OP: The Edsel.
http://classicmotorsports.net/project-cars/1959-edsel-villager/

I agree that a Falcon is a good choice, as long as you can find one in good condition that hasn't been mucked about. They're simple and replacement parts are pretty easy to find.

As stated, that Ranchero is overpriced. Something around $4k would be more realistic. Stay away from dealers if you can and try to buy from an individual, you'll get more for your money.

I bought this 1963 Mercury for $9k- 63k orig miles, 390/auto, 100% rust free, beautiful original interior, original paint, all power, 100% driver ready. The deals are out there if you do the footwork

my classics are the most reliable stuff i have.

Happy Andy stopped by my shop today while he was in the area. We were discussing how most of the classic '60's-70's non-Mustang Fords are less expensive than their GM and Mopar counterparts.

If I were to go looking for a classic '60's Ford, I'd take a look at a '66-67 Fairlane. I think they are an under-appreciated, but handsome design.

If your father is a Ford guy at heart, look into some local Ford clubs. A good club will know of any cars for sale in the area, along with what are good and what to avoid.

Seeing that your profile puts you in CT, you might want to consider finding something from a salt-free climate. I'm sure if you were interested in a car in the south-west, there would be a GRMer in the area willing to take a look at it.

Its better to buy a spotless rolling chassis than a pile of rust that moves under its own power.

I've had incredible luck with early 70's stuff. There are a ton of 70-76 cars out there that nobody wants because of "smog" but they have incredible potential. I had a 74 Maverick with a 302 that was surprisingly fast and the owner sold it to me for $250 because he couldn't get the charging system right. Turns out he just had the alternator wire on the wrong side of the solenoid. I drove it for a year and sold it for $1200.

I bought a 73 AMC Hornet Sportabout Wagon with 7400 miles on it (not a typo) for $1500. I upgraded the brakes and drove it as my daily driver for a long time until someone offered me stupid money for it.

As far as reliability is concerned, if you start with a good example they are far more reliable than many new cars. They don't have a metric ton of sensors, transducers, wiring, and solenoids to fail. My 67 LeMans has three necessary wires going to the engine; coil, starter, and alternator. There are some additional wires going to the coolant temp sensor, tach, and the oil pressure sender, but if they fail it won't leave you sitting beside the road. The transmission has a vacuum line. Period.

Old cars rule.

+1 on reliability( at least in my experience, anyway ) and buying the best body that you can find

I was given my grandfathers '67 impala and used it as a daily for several years. My only issues were a leaky RMS and rust. I would prob have it today if I hadn't hit someone during a panic stop in heavy traffic. After the accident, the car was stolen shortly afterwards from my apartment complex and was never recovered.

I will own another classic car, but in the FoMoCo family( falcon/maverick/capri/etc ) one day.

Be prepared to live w/ a car "lacking in modern conveniences" though. For example, disk brakes, rear defrost, points ignitions, carbs, etc. Nothing to be afraid of, just aware of the fact that you're not driving a modern camry or accord.

my first few cars were 60's fords. I didn't really know anything about cars back then (early 1990's) but I wanted something that I thought looked cool. Honestly, My 63 mercury monterey and my 65 galaxie were the two most reliable cars I've ever owned. The mercury never gave me any trouble at all and the galaxie was taken off the road when the transmission finally gave up after years of daily driving. If i had to buy another old ford I would probably go with mid size like a falcon or comet. pretty much everything for those cars is available and they can be made to perform reasonable well. like everyone else has said rust is the enemy and that's pretty much it

4 doors cost just as much to restore as 2 doors, but 2 doors have significantly higher resale value.

There are more good opportunities out there for 4 door cars.

You know we have a magazine dedicated to older cars, right?

http://classicmotorsports.net/

If you ask nicely, we'll even send you a copy for free.

I drove a '64 Fairlane farther than I have any other car, over 200,000 miles, much of it pulling a light motorcycle trailer. 260 V-8 rebuilt just before my father-in-law gave us the car, two-speed Ford-O-Matic slush box. Needed a front-end rebuild every 80,000, that was about it.Very easy to work on, completly reliable.Father-in-law's little old lady neighbor drove it to the post office and back every day, never got it warmed up. 2000 miles per year and changed the oil every 5000. Ten years of that and it needed a short block so she dumped it. Same with my '59 Dodge Coronet in that I piled on the miles, another two-speed tranny, never neeeded anything. I bought it for $300, 80,000 miles DD and towing to bike races and never had a hiccup. "The more you use and maintain, the more reliable" is absolutely true. Needed a windshield once. Called the glass store. "Betcha' don't have one for a '59 Coronet?" "Got two, $98 apiece." Now, this was in '88.

The trick, especially with 50s stuff on back, is to buy the completely unloved 4 door version of an iconic 2 door car, most parts, which will be available forever, interchange(the glass most importantly), and the car is cheap.

The only time my classics are deemed "reliable" are after I have personally gone through all of the major systems. Before finding a car, I'd find a mechanic. How much does your father feel is reasonable to spend on yearly maintenance? You need to balance parts availability with service costs.

I'd look for a rust free first generation Mustang. You can build an entire car from resto parts (cheap too).

That being said, this is near you and might be awesome if there is no rust: http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/3215404581.html

and this: http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/3241500201.html

Holy time capsule Batman! http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/3239831883.html

Most of it has been covered already, but...

What came to mind when I read the requirements was, "Maybe an old truck would suit his needs."

Maybe he wouldn't be interested...but if he is, they make great "Occasional" or "drive it whenever I want to" vehicles. And they're incredibly useful as well.

But I'll NEVER be found talking someone out of buying a Falcon (unless it's close to me and is a good deal...because I'll want it).

Clem

Buy a Western car. Even if you live in Northern Maine, the cost of shipping a car from Los Angeles to Bangor is less than the rust repair 90% of most Eastern cars will need. Honestly, I'd rather buy a car sight unseen from southern California than roll the dice that what I'm looking at right in front of me isn't a bondo-bucket with wheels.

Flying out to Cali, checking the car out, and driving it back is another option, and a fun adventure. If it breaks, find a garage and a cheap motel, and camp out in that town for a few days until it gets fixed.

Thanks for all the great info guys.

What are some good websites for finding some of the less expensive old cars? AutoTrader seemed to mostly have expensive stuff. Is Craigslist as good as it gets?

Every so often the kind of car you're looking for will show up in the classified ads on the HAMB board:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/

Here's a couple examples:
1959 Chevy station wagon, $6200: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=729332
1965 Ford Falcon sedan delivery, $7500: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=662977
1955 Pontiac four door sedan, $4300: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=732140
1958 Chevrolet Delray two door sedan, $7000: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=730394

HAMB is probably the best, but there's still deals to be had on Hemmings Motor News if you jump through enough hoops.
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/

Don't forget Bring a Trailer, they have a flirtation with higher priced stuff, but they have the occasional budget car.
http://bringatrailer.com/

There is iron in the words of volvoclearinghouse. far better to buy a $5k los angeles car and spend $2k shipping, instead of buying a typical northeastern car for $10k.

A friend used to pay for his vacations to Sweden by shiping over a classic American car and vacationing on the profit.

If I lived back east and ran a rare car business, I'd consider bringing over a trailer of California cars every few months. OTOH, when I lived in Ohio I often thought of doing the opposite with antique furnishings. hmmmmmm, my entrepeneur spidey sense is tingling....

Back on topic, I'd just like to say that there's great advice above. Follow and you should be fine. But also consider that good things come to those who wait. Opportunitys arise remarkably frequently for those with patience.. But if you hurry the process, you mightn't be as happy with the results.