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Against my better judgment because I swore off of VW's after my Mk II GTI. I am considering a new beetle for my daughters first car. 2nd gens seems to cost about 10K more than first gens (probably for good reason?) but that 10K takes them out of the running for her first car. From my understanding they are Golf based but with weird dimensions to work with when you need to do maintenance or repair plus they come with the check engine light permanently lit up as a feature not a bug. Also that their auto transmissions dont last. She is already stoked to learn to drive a stick shift so if I was to go this route at this point having a stick shift would be a requirement, also that its non turbo, since its a beginning driver. Opinions please. She is willing to drive the Corolla I already own but really thinks she wants a new beetle and its hard to say no, but if I should avoid them, I have no problem at all nixing that in the bud. Or if they are the next coming of Christ and arent to be missed, maybe the internet is just delusional. Plus my biases.

buzzboy
buzzboy UltraDork
2/1/24 8:10 a.m.

If you go for an early TDI they are the most reliable and best loved VW Diesel, the ALH. I know you said no turbo, but...

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
2/1/24 9:41 a.m.

The Beetle is a fashion/style choice.  I get it.  We all do it to some extent.  

Are there possibly other fashion/style choices?

Nissan Cube?  The problem with the Nissans of this era was cvt auto.  But, if you find a rareish one with manual trans, that concern is avoided   

Fiat 500s are cute but I'm not sure there is an argument that a Fiat is more reliable than a VW.

Kia Souls came in some funky colors.  Not sure about the recent theft issues.  

Something else?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/1/24 10:18 a.m.

The following are my observations from running repair shops during that decade and should not be taken as apocalyptic.  These are just my jaded comments.  They're not as bad as I portray here.

Be prepared for nickels and dimes.  I'm not sure if VW released patents on parts, but there were a very large proportion of parts that VW made so proprietary that you had to buy the VW part, and it was only available at dealers.  An example:  The crankcase vent tube.  It uses a special squared off o-ring click connector that defies just replacing it with some parts store rubber hose, and it was $181 wholesale when I ran shops.  To make matters worse, it's made of plastic corrugated tubing that doesn't play well with HC.  Think like split-tube wire loom material without the split.

Timing belt changes are an absolute nightmare.  To remove the front engine mount (right in the middle of the timing belt), you have to extract a 6" mount with 2" of clearance to the strut tower.   It's a process of jacking the engine up, rotating the mount, lowering the engine, putting the mount in a little cavity beside the water pump housing.... it's intense.  If you get the diesel, be sure to buy or make the special tool to hold the injector pump in place.  Re-timing that pump isn't easy.

Buy a set of triple square sockets, but be prepared to shear off every bolt head the first time you try to pull a CV axle.

Changing the alternator (or A/C compressor, I forget) calls for removing the front bumper, which in those cars means both front fenders because they're all one piece. In reality, you don't need to.  You can do it without stripping half the body, but it's not a fun job.  Be prepared to strip and refinish about 30 interior pieces.  They're painted with something akin to plasti-dip that turns into something stickier than a tabletop at IHOP after a flapjack festival, and the whole interior smells like you are melting a 64-box of Crayolas.  It's seriously pretty oppressive.

Do not put in an aftermarket head unit unless you know what you're doing.  It will set a CEL and turn your ALDL into a code-reader-killer depending on the reader.  The BCM monitors everything from seat heaters to windshield washers, and yes, the radio.  If you don't do a head unit properly with a special VAG COM harness, it starts sending 12v to a pin in the ALDL that is supposed to have something else.  At the best you'll get a CEL with no comm to your scanner.  At the worst, you'll get a fried scanner.

Re-clean all of your grounds for lighting, and don't use cheap bulbs.  Unless the resistance of the bulbs is spot-on, it will tell you you have a brake light out.  Usually "long life" bulbs are close enough, but a cheap, regular 3157 won't cut it.  Grounds frequently get corroded which over-amps the socket.  They melt and you sometimes have to get a new socket.

I would strongly suggest a manual.  The 01A automatics in those beetles are disposable.  Impossible to rebuild properly, and your only real hope is a big-dollar reman off the shelf, or getting lucky finding a used one that isn't wasted.

I do love me some ALH TDI.  Sips fuel, decent torque, good aftermarket if you decide to turn it up to 11.  I always loved the style.  I think VW did a good job reviving the old Beetle.  Aside from the problem areas (pretty typical for most German early-OBD2 cars), I think it could be a good bet.  I mostly mention these above things to give you a jump start on what to expect.  You may experience none of the above, but those are the common things we saw in the shop.

 

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/1/24 10:29 a.m.

IMHO, if an MK2 made you swear off of VWs, forget the first new Beetles. 

CJ
CJ GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/1/24 10:46 a.m.

My niece and granddaughter both had new beetles.  The niece's had the spoiler that raised at 'speed' - it never worked.  Both cars were automatics.  Both had the trans fluid completely changed (8 qts of unicorn blood to do that job) with the filter at about 80K.  I did the timing belt/water pump/idler on my gd's at the same time.

Never ever had a real problem mechanically.  My gd's ate the power window mechanism.   Bought a new aftermarket and it was fine.

Her mom got her a new car and I detailed the VW and made it pretty.  She sold it for twice what she paid for it in mid-2021.

Not bad all in all.

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish)
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) UltimaDork
2/1/24 11:15 a.m.

My daughter, who is 16, begged for a New Beetle.  My answer was a hard no, for the reasons mentioned above.  She is now driving my previous DD, a 2014 Toyota Prius C.  She absolutely loves it.  In fact I've asked her about giving it back to me if I got her a Kia Soul (her second choice behind Beetle) and she declined.  

Just say no. 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
2/1/24 11:24 a.m.

As a long term VW owner/operator/racer, I firmly told my 16yo NO and bought a R53 Mini Cooper S instead. That should tell you something laugh

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
2/1/24 12:39 p.m.

Yeah, that's gonna be a no from me dawg

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke UberDork
2/1/24 1:37 p.m.

Hard no. I am apparently fairly sensitive to the off gassing interior plastics of certain makes of cars and this era of VW I could never ever own because of the overpowering smell of melting crayons. Maintenance issues #1, awful smell #2.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/1/24 1:46 p.m.

Body swap one onto something more reliable? cheeky

Ah. Thank you all for confirming my thoughts. I'm definitely going to hard no this idea. I suspect once she learns to drive a stick , she will happily take over my Toyota and never look back. Appreciate the insight because I was near to caving and this was after deciding against a 500 Abarth  or Fiata for myself already. I have no problem working on the cars, but the tomfoolery that these represent is just not worth it.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
2/2/24 9:33 a.m.

If you want her to feel the pinnacle of automotive pain in the ass, it's a good choice. Sounds like you are choosing your and your daughter's mental health over that though.

gunner (Forum Supporter)
gunner (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/2/24 10:58 a.m.
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

If you want her to feel the pinnacle of automotive pain in the ass, it's a good choice. Sounds like you are choosing your and your daughter's mental health over that though.

Yeah, no thanks. I already have a Subaru with a turbo. Chasing down po172 at idle for the past 6 months has been plenty mentally straining for me.

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
2/2/24 11:44 a.m.

Just one more post of negativity from the collision repair side.

Hell no. Miserable to work on. Several parts already discontinued. Any minor front end hit will need a radiator support (plastic junk). They are worth almost nothing, so become totals pretty quickly.

nakmuayfarang
nakmuayfarang New Reader
2/2/24 12:32 p.m.

Maybe my experience with a Fiat 500 Abarth is an anomaly, but I found it easy to work on and dead reliable even with higher mileage.

 Parts were plentiful and it was a riot to drive because it made angry noises at any speed and even winding it out did not result in extra legal speeds.

nakmuayfarang
nakmuayfarang New Reader
2/2/24 12:35 p.m.

Knock on wood but my prior experience has even emboldened me to do a fly and drive to pick up a 2103 500 Lounge for my daughter.  I'm at the airport now and have a 20 hour drive back home so wish me luck!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/2/24 12:42 p.m.

In reply to nakmuayfarang :

2103 500 Lounge? Is that one of these?

Off-topic question, you’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?

nakmuayfarang
nakmuayfarang New Reader
2/2/24 12:52 p.m.

You mentioned you ruled out a Fiat 500 Abarth because rEliAbiLity and I was helping by letting you know there are many examples with high mileage and no issues.  Someone else mentioned the Fiat 500 as well and also speculated they were unreliable with no basis for that statement.  I too have owned VW, a Jetta sportwagen TDi among them and found them to be enormous piles of crap.  Not so the 500.  I'm buying one as we speak and trusting it to drive 20 hours home.  Fiat 500 are cuter than new beetles and are reliable.  Just trying to help your poor daughter not be forced to drive a E36 M3box Corolla but go ahead and keep thinking that will make her happy.

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish)
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) UltimaDork
2/2/24 1:14 p.m.

In reply to nakmuayfarang :

Are you actually trying to make the argument that the 500 is a reliable car overall?!?!  surprise   If so, I know where there's a good Maserati Biturbo for sale that you can use just in the rare case the Fiat is in the shop. 

nakmuayfarang
nakmuayfarang New Reader
2/2/24 1:28 p.m.

You should have offered that CJ7 lol!  I had a 78 with the V8 back in the late 80's and it was a huge POS 30 years ago.  Good luck with that and  keep an off-road recovery service on speed dial if you're ever brave enough to try off-roading it:  let's just say make sure you can see streetlights the whole way.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UberDork
2/2/24 1:36 p.m.

How about a Prius , I  would think it fits in and is "Green"  which matters at her age , 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
2/2/24 2:01 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

Body swap one onto something more reliable? cheeky

Like, maybe a Bi-Turbo? Not sure about the wheelbase but it would improve the reliability.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
2/2/24 2:03 p.m.
nakmuayfarang said:

Maybe my experience with a Fiat 500 Abarth is an anomaly, but I found it easy to work on and dead reliable even with higher mileage.

 Parts were plentiful and it was a riot to drive because it made angry noises at any speed and even winding it out did not result in extra legal speeds.

Well, here at the shop we waited 3 months for a windshield that Fiat decided to just stop making. Took us another 2 weeks to track down an aftermarket one that would actually work in the Lounge. Rocker molding took 5 weeks to get. I wouldn't call parts availability as "plentiful" unless you live in Italy. 

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish)
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) UltimaDork
2/2/24 2:40 p.m.
nakmuayfarang said:

You should have offered that CJ7 lol!  I had a 78 with the V8 back in the late 80's and it was a huge POS 30 years ago.  Good luck with that and  keep an off-road recovery service on speed dial if you're ever brave enough to try off-roading it:  let's just say make sure you can see streetlights the whole way.

Interesting... help me understand what my Jeep has to do with the reliability of Fiat??  

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