Learn me flat towing!

I have a WJ Grand Cherokee (4000 lb V8 with tow package, 6500 lb trailer weight rating) and an XJ Cherokee (roughly 3300 lbs) that want to get across the country. I have towed all sorts of stuff on a trailer but never flat towed. Putting both Jeeps on a trailer and towing with my big Dodge isn't really an option, it's a one-way trip.

The connection part is easy, the XJ has extensions on the frame for a push bar and I can bolt to that. I could even wire the XJ brake lights in to the WJ brake lights. Put the NP242 into neutral and the XJ is ready to go.

Do you just not bother with brakes on the dinghy? Stopping capability of a WJ with an XJ on the back is probably about the same as an XJ on its own :) I can't think of any reasonable way you'd be able to fit electric brakes to the XJ.

Anything else I should know? 

I'm going to go out on limb a say the unbraked towing capacity of the WJ is much lower then 6500 pounds, probably closer to 1500 or less without brakes.

Do some research into whether or not the transmission can tolerate flat-towing.  In some cases, the output shaft won't receive proper lubrication unless the input shaft is getting power. Obviously that's not good.  Just make sure the NP242 in neutral won't burn out anything.

Back in the 80s, for about 4 years, I flat towed my IT car to races. Longest tow was Los Angeles to Sears Point. The tow vehicle was a '69 Pontiac LeMans Safari wagon. Never a problem - it is generally pretty easy. Just don't get into a situation where you might have to backup. But . . . if you do just disconnect rearrange and reconnect. With the x-country tow you might want to pull the driveshafts.

some states require brakes on a flat-towed vehicle.  the motorhome aftermarket has electric "pedal pusher" devices which actually push the brake pedal to apply the service brakes of the towed vehicle.

Yep, look up "toad brakes".

I've seen people flat towing lifted CJ7s across the country with other lifted CJs.  The transfer case should be fine in neutral.

JesseWolfe said:

I'm going to go out on limb a say the unbraked towing capacity of the WJ is much lower then 6500 pounds, probably closer to 1500 or less without brakes.

Good point. Looking around, it's rated at 750 kg overseas which is 1650 lbs. Those "pedal pushers" seem to run about $1k, I wonder if I can borrow/rent one for the trip? More investigation required.

Apparently the 242 transfer case has no problems being flat towed in neutral.

Rent a u-haul trailer one-way, or is that more than the WJ can pull?

Knurled. said:

Yep, look up "toad brakes".

 

I've seen people flat towing lifted CJ7s across the country with other lifted CJs.  The transfer case should be fine in neutral.

Thanks for that. ReadyBrake has a mechanical system that's actually pretty clever. Basically a cable that pulls on the dinghy brake pedal. Takes care of brake lights too. Still $400, but compared to the cost of renting a trailer that may be worthwhile.

If you're not sure, pull the rear drive shaft. Some 'cases run the oil pump off the output shaft, but most run it off the input shaft. I've flat towed Jeeps plenty of time. I always pull the driveshaft. 
if you need to drive the towed jeep around a parking lot and don't feel like putting the rat shaft in, just to pull it back out, drive around in FWD 

One-way rental for a trailer would be $663 according to the U-Haul. Since the WJ is rated for 6500 lbs, that should not be a problem although the U-Haul site does not believe it is possible.  Maybe their trailers weigh more than 3000 lbs :)

With the cost of a tow bar for the XJ and a braking system, we're looking at about $500 in parts. I would be more confident in the mechanical condition of the XJ than a random U-Haul trailer but it would certainly be more work for a one-time use.

Keep talking, this is interesting.

Keith Tanner said:

Knurled. said:

Yep, look up "toad brakes".

 

I've seen people flat towing lifted CJ7s across the country with other lifted CJs.  The transfer case should be fine in neutral.

Thanks for that. ReadyBrake has a mechanical system that's actually pretty clever. Basically a cable that pulls on the dinghy brake pedal. Takes care of brake lights too. Still $400, but compared to the cost of renting a trailer that may be worthwhile.

Plus use it once and then sell for a reduction in net cost.

Get a friend to drive the XJ and cover his expenses?

Keith Tanner said:

Knurled. said:

Yep, look up "toad brakes".

 

I've seen people flat towing lifted CJ7s across the country with other lifted CJs.  The transfer case should be fine in neutral.

Thanks for that. ReadyBrake has a mechanical system that's actually pretty clever. Basically a cable that pulls on the dinghy brake pedal. Takes care of brake lights too. Still $400, but compared to the cost of renting a trailer that may be worthwhile.

You're welcome.  $400 sounds really cheap compared to when I was looking into it.

I only flat towed once long-distance, and braking was never really a concern.  What would have been nice to have a toad brake for was the time when I found myself countersteering at 65mph on an interchange and I didn't DARE slow down.  If I had a trailer brake actuator, I would have pulled the lever.

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

Get a friend to drive the XJ and cover his expenses?

There may actually be two of us in the WJ, so we could simply drive in convoy. But 2000 miles on the interstate in an XJ solo vs 2000 miles in a WJ while hanging with one of your best friends? That's worth the effort of making a tow (flat or otherwise) work.

Where are you headed and when?  Maybe you can find some crazy person on here who lives near you or near your destination and buy 'em a plane ticket / cover motel or airbnb costs?

It would be from CO to Ottawa at some time to be determined. Thing is, I actually want to go to Ottawa to visit family and I actually want to spend a few days hanging with my friend Eric on the way. So this is more a project on how to get to do something I want to do instead of trying to figure out how to avoid doing something I don't want to do.

Right, I meant to drive the XJ so that you and your friend can drive the WJ.  Just an idea I know I'd consider it if either location were anywhere near me.

Any chance of dolly towing?  That seems to be a lot more stable.

U-Haul will rent a dolly for $333 one-way. So it's a possibility. I'm not sure why it would be more stable, but it's an option.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I think it is because the dolly actually trails behind the car, while a towbar has to "drag" the front of the towed car sideways so its steering can turn.  This also means that the the towed car will also want to impart its own will on the tow vehicle.

I guess one way to look at it is like the difference between towing a heavy single axle trailer, versus how stable a double axle trailer is.  Now make the wheelbase car-length.

Dolly towing, to me, feels extremely stable, even moreso than towing an actual trailer.

Interesting. Dolly towing has always looked like a serious lash-up to me, but there may be something in the caster of the dolly wheels that makes it easier to steer. I'm not convinced the geometry is really any different but I'd need to spend more time looking at the geometry of the dolly. I'm still concerned about the quality of the tow dolly's mechanicals, but at least it's less stressed than a trailer. This may be the best option. At worst, if the tow dolly bearings or tires self destruct, we'll just chuck the remains in the back of the XJ and drive both vehicles.

So we have learned:

- yes, you need brakes on the towed vehicle
- the GRM forum doesn't really like flat towing and would rather come up with a number of alternatives :)

I've trailered, dollied, and used a tow bar quite a bit over the decades.   Tow bar would be my absolute last choice with that combo, and a choice only if I was going less than 100 miles.   I would be pricing a tow dolly, and dropping the driveshaft.  Any hint of death wobble with the XJ, and your drive will be miserable and slow.


The 242 does have a true neutral for towing, so you should be good there, however the 231 in some of the early XJs (and YJs) does not, which would cause issues with a tow dolly, or with flat towing if you run lockers or a limited slip.  (I've had friends who refused to listen to this advice, and promptly put their Grand Cherokee/Wrangler combo into a ditch)


And though this doesn't pertain to the XJ, I would remiss if I didn't mention that flat towing a CJ that has a Dana 300 without dropping the rear shaft will result in carnage that may or may not include a t-case fire.


 

Feel free to drop either off in COS and I'll give them a good home :) 

But seriously once you clear Denver, I don't see either as being too big of an issue. Maybe drive both to Limon and then hook-up and flat tow from there. My dad flat tows his TJ all of the time with no issues through the SE with a tow bar on the back of his RV. No brake pusher needed. IT's just the customary tow bar and a set of magnetic brake lights like those on tow trucks. 

Another option... 

Pay to have the XJ shipped to me or another GRMer near the Canadian border then just drive the XJ yourself as  a convoy  across the border and off to Ottawa.