"Learn me" FRS/BRZ/86

I've been looking for something to potentially replace my R53 MINI and maybe my supercharged NB. The Frisbee triplets are on the radar, but I have reservations that hark back to a failed Subaru engine several years ago, combined with current recall issues I think I've seen on the triplets. Most of the used ones I see for sale are 2013 models for some reason, with a smattering of newer ones thrown in. All are priced according to the current Covid tax, not much I can do about that. Aside from that, are there particular years to avoid,  is the FRS significantly different from a BRZ for a street driven DD, do the various trim levels make much difference, any other issues I should be aware of?

Edit: The other thing I notice is that most of the newer ones are being offered on Carvana or Vroom, and I'm not comfortable ordering a car sight unseen.

2013 models tend to develop oiling issues and eventually eat a bearing in the bottom end somewhere.  There is also a bad very early tuning calibration on some ECUs in cars produced before March 2013 or so, it seems like the best way to determine whether a car has it is to plug in a decent OBD2 scanner and check the calibration numbers.  2014+ seems immune to these issues, and I believe the cars got better ignition coils that don't overheat as easily starting in 2015.

Oil cooler is a must for track work or so I'm told.

There are minor suspension differences between the models but for DD use I'd consider the FRS/BRZ/86 all equivalent, buy the options you want and modify to suit.

I have little to add other than the tip that Toyota will show you all the dealer service a car has ever had.  As I wrote in another thread:  

For Toyota, Scion and Lexus you can go to their respective websites and there you will find a section for Owners.  Even if you don't own the potential car yet, you can set up a username and password for the site.  Then when you enter the VIN of the potential purchase it will return to you service records of any dealer services done anywhere in the US.  All free!  

I have used this info to make some purchasing decisions on a couple for Prius.  I bought a 188k salvage Prius resulting me having it on the road for just $1k.  The reason I purchased it was that this site showed me great details of dealer service including the PO buying 4 tires from the dealership.  It has been a great car.  

For Scions, just create an account on the Toyota owners site https://www.toyota.com/owners/ 

Often, if you download deep into the service records it will even go as far as to give you part numbers of the replaced parts.  It might not show the servicing dealership and it certainly will not lead you to the previous owner.  

2013-2014 also fall under the valve spring recall, which has been known to cause catastrophic issues when performed. Incidence rate is allegedly higher when done at a Toyota dealer and issues seem to surface within a few thousand miles of the repair. 
 

Throw out bearings are also known to seize and fail and I think this issue affects all years. 
 

'17+ cars got a 5hp bump, shorter rear end gearing, and a handful of other minor upgrades.

There is a difference in suspension tuning between the BRZ and FRS, with the latter having a more tail happy balance, especially in the early cars. 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I've been looking for something to potentially replace my R53 MINI and maybe my supercharged NB. The Frisbee triplets are on the radar,

Looking for fun, small, light car.  The BMW 128 came onto my radar recently.   Coupe and Convertible.  

Convertible sample

There is a bigger engine 135 also but I think I read that the smaller engined 128 is the more desirable/reliable.  

In reply to John Welsh :

Never even thought about one of those......now I'll have to go looking.

Lots with automatics.  Few with manual.  I think they are a forgotten BMW model.  Smaller than a 3-series but the 3-series got fat so many say they are the new e30.  The looks can be a little "dwarf-y" from some angles.  Sort of a scrunched 7/8ths 3 series.  I think they are attractive.  I don't know what the shortcomings are.  

For you, I thought Mini-like switchgear with the German influenced interior and Miata convertible but with a back seat.  

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/02/reader-review-2013-bmw-128i-sport/

Of the E82s the 128i is the one you want. Find one with a manual and the sport package (for the seats) and you're good to go. Great cars, the last of the proper BMWs (discounting the Ms), and surprisingly useful. The seats fold, allowing more cargo capacity than you'd expect in a small car.

On the flipside, since you clearly don't have a problem with small, what about the ND Miata? Definitely smaller than the 128i, but more modern and the RF is quite civilized top up. Considerably less flexible, though. If that's too much, NC PRHT?

In reply to 02Pilot :

Don't tell my wife, but I'm looking for something to replace the MINI and also looking at buying a newer Miata of some sort. The ongoing issue for me  is the distinct lack of small cars with stick shifts. I'd keep the MINI, and may for awhile yet, but it's starting the inevitable transformation to iron oxide, same issue with my NB. If I were to buy an ND RF then I'd likely replace the MINI with something more appliance like. I can't really see me with an RF and one of the Frisbee triplets.

The 128i would be great, it's basically a modern E30 (size wise) with more power. The engine responds well to tuning/mods, had I realized this I would have looked for a 128 vs the 135 that broke my wallet. 

2015+ on the twins is where you want to be. The only real negative for me for the twins is the comically bad stereo, OEM+ offers a nice upgrade that gets good reviews, but it's pricey. 

I have refused to go test drive an ND1 or ND2 as I'm afraid my impulsiveness will quick in and I'll just buy one. 

I'm now 2 months without a car and still don't know what I'm going to replace it with. 

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I suppose the question is how much practicality you really need. But you'd be hard-pressed to go wrong with a 128i or an ND RF. Can't comment on the Frisbees except to say that I considered one before I got the 128i and haven't looked back.

In reply to 02Pilot :

All I really need is a hatch or a trunk that will take a full size pro golf bag or my hockey bag. The MINI with the seats down is perfect. For anything more than that I have my wife's xB or my pickup. The MINI is a comfortable car to travel in, so I would like something just as nice.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I've put my road bike (front wheel removed) into the 128i with the seats folded. It's tight, but it fits. Multiple golf bags or a goalie's hockey bag would be easy.

Squeezing hockey equipment into the trunk of an FRS is tight, depending on the shape of your bag.  I could fit mine but I had to open the bag and let it squish flat as I shoved it in.  If you're a goalie, don't even think about it.

Speaking from experience, if you get a 2013 and it still needs the recall to be done, don't get the recall done.  More engines have failed from the recall work than from the non-existent problem it was recalled for.  I've been meaning to update my thread about my experience but haven't had a chance. 

Outside observer and possibly ignorant perspective, but... for a vehicle that is often described as a "fixed roof Miata", they sure have a lot of exotic problems that Miatas don't have.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

It's what makes a Subaru a Subaru.

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

Outside observer and possibly ignorant perspective, but... for a vehicle that is often described as a "fixed roof Miata", they sure have a lot of exotic problems that Miatas don't have.

NDs have the same oil/trans temp issues. Lots of cars seem to have rod bearing/oiling issues once they generate much more lateral grip than stock. 

One thing with the twins that is ignored because people don't RTFM, is that the trans and diff changes are 22.5k miles vs 30k like most cars........it's because they have a small capacity. I found changing the trans about 12k miles was ideal, it gets notchy much past that. 

I realize that my case is just one data point, but I feel like the issues sometimes get overblown. I've owned my late-2013 FR-S since new and it has been completely reliable. I didn't get a recall notice, haven't had the recall work done, haven't had any oiling issues, haven't had any oil temp issues on track, and the sky hasn't fallen! 
 

It is probably worth mentioning that I try to keep on top of oil changes and maintenance, I don't  accumulate tons of miles compared to many, and my track time has been with the car bone-stock, or bone-stock on slightly stickier street rubber in stock tire size. If you jam massive stickiest tires under there, upgrade the brakes, and hop up the engine with a stock oiling system before heading to the track, YMMV.

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to 02Pilot :

All I really need is a hatch or a trunk that will take a full size pro golf bag or my hockey bag. The MINI with the seats down is perfect. For anything more than that I have my wife's xB or my pickup. The MINI is a comfortable car to travel in, so I would like something just as nice.

The opening on the FR-S is about 36" wide at the widest point and just over 24" wide at the sill. The trunk itself is about 15" tall at best. But I am constantly surprised at how much it holds if the objects are flexible. The only time my weekly grocery shopping doesn't easily fit is if I buy a pack of toilet paper.

Don't tell anyone, but the 2017-2020 Krill Grille model is technically the best one. You can swap the older bumper onto it, may also require headlights to be swapped. The oiling issues aren't a 2013-2016 model problem, they're a boxer engine problem. Most important mods to get are oil pan baffles and maybe a bigger oil pickup tube, and an oil cooler setup along with oil viscosity on the high end of the recommended range.

Why not just get a newer MINI, like an F56? 

They are pretty reliable from when I did my research a couple years back and still very MINI-like, but more refined than the R53.  I was extremely closed to buying an JCW a couple years back until the super deal on an M240i came my way.

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

Outside observer and possibly ignorant perspective, but... for a vehicle that is often described as a "fixed roof Miata", they sure have a lot of exotic problems that Miatas don't have.

.....and that's my concern with them.

In reply to Aspen :

It's not out of the question, but I find the newer MINIs are bigger and heavier and just don't do it for me. I have briefly driven different MINI models and they're all nice cars, but there's something missing.

(I'm just here for considering the BRZ and the 1 Series both...  Move along, move along.)

Image for a better sense of the trunk opening size on the FR-S.