Learn me GM LD9 (late Quad 4)

So, I found a potential donor for my challenge X1/9.

The car is a 2000 Cavalier Z 24. Here's the engine:

It is a 5 speed, needs clutch. The ad says the engine is knocking. Complete car-asking $250. Very local.

I seem to recall a big deal being made over the lifters in Quad 4s being so precise that they had to be set by computer.

Also, 5 minutes of research reveals poor oiling, problematic timing chains, and water pumps.

This engine seems to have one balance shaft driven by the timing chain, which drives the other balance shaft, which, in turn, drives the oil pump. Doesn't sound ideal. 

So, does anyone have good knowledge/experience? 

Thank You in advance.

Garbage, stupid to work on.

Streetwiseguy said:

Garbage, stupid to work on.

Expensive parts, too. Thanks for your input.

I think you should be able to find a non knocking donor cavalier for $250

My biggest automotive heartbreak was probably the former GRM challenge quad4 crx. It was fast when running but blew through several engines and lasted all of 50 laps in my first lemons race. :(

My wife and I had that combo in a Pontiac Grand Am 20 years ago.  We had chronic water in the oil from new.  Lots of dealer visits and 7 years later Pontiac put a new head on it and we drove it across town to the other dealer and traded it in on a GTP.  Quad 4s are junk.

Well, nice. You guys are making my Nissan QR 25 that ate its catalytic converter sound better all the time.

Thank You all for honest feedback. 

What about an ecotec cobalt donor?  

Patrick said:

What about an ecotec cobalt donor?  

Right now, I'm all ears.

Facebook Marketplace has grenaded Craigslist, and I don't Facebook anymore. As such, I'm not finding too many decent donors locally. I haven't given up on the VQ, but it's freakin HUGE. Honestly, the getrag from that Z 24 impressed me more than anything. I didn't realize Quad 4s sucked so badly. So, yes. I'd definitely consider a ecotec donor.

I draw the line this side of direct injection. I don't think I can do that on challenge budget.

I'd consider Neons, Probes, Camrys, Saabs, Hondas, Damn near anything 4 cyl or V6, as long a stick is viable. An Italian car needs a manual.

I mean, there's stuff like this (not sure if it's manual or not from the ad, but I'm sure they exist). 

https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/pts/d/bensenville-chevy-cruze-14-turbo-engine/7030851076.html

Robbie said:

I mean, there's stuff like this (not sure if it's manual or not from the ad, but I'm sure they exist). 

https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/pts/d/bensenville-chevy-cruze-14-turbo-engine/7030851076.html

That Cruze 1.4T, when modified, can be a rocking' unit. That's what Del Long has started using in his Mod Jeeps, cranked to like 350hp.

Saturn LLO is a viable option.  Cheap running & driving examples with a manual are easy to find.  About 125 hp stock if that's enough for you.  Electronics are simple too.  All aluminum and light weight.

Can be found in 1992  thru 2001-ish Saturn SL2, SC2, and SW2

wheelsmithy said:

I didn't realize Quad 4s sucked so badly.

They don't.  Ran a Calais in SCCA IT and NASA HPDE for roughly 8 years.  Was a very affordable and fun car for the track that was reasonably competitive.  Had *one* mechanical DNF in a race when a lifter broke and put a vent hole in a cam cover, and a qualifying DNF when a rear hub broke.  Also had two Quad4 street cars that I dailied for roughly 10 years. 

Early ones especially liked to eat head gaskets, but my '88 Calais never went when I drove it '92-'98 and my '92 Achieva SCX hit 150K before its gasket went.  Coilpacks and ignition modules could occasionally go.  There's a PCV box that could allow condensation into the oil. None were big deals when parts were readily accessible in junkyards.  Probably less so now that they've been out of production for ~20 years.

Not saying a Quad4 is the perfect option, but don't automatically dismiss one if the right opportunity comes along.

I wonder if these motors were pretty good in the early/mid-90's and then the accountants came in and screwed them up like some other non-V8 GM engines of the time.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

I wonder if these motors were pretty good in the early/mid-90's and then the accountants came in and screwed them up like some other non-V8 GM engines of the time.

Seemed like it. Early ones were less troublesome. They also had less displacement with a larger bore and shorter stroke, more compression, more aggressive camshafts and no balance shafts. Then the press lambasted them with NVH complaints, so they made it a smaller bore and longer stroke, dialed back the compression and cams, added a balance shaft and lowered the redline. 

My thought on these is that they'd be good in a Challenge car, but I wouldn't want to rely on one for 200k miles.

I've seen more than a few Quad4 GMs in the U-Pull junkyards that went down due to a crash, so they were running and driving right up until they got smashed.

wheelsmithy said:

 

Also, 5 minutes of research reveals poor oiling, problematic timing chains, and water pumps.

The manager at the machine shop I deal with once told me sonmething that really put questions like this into perspective. If because of how many we see here in the machine shop is any indcation, the small block chevy has to be the worst engine ever built.

You see those results in your search because there were so many of them on the road and you never hear about the ones that just plain worked.They can be very good. They are not difficult to work on, but were fairly advanced at th time and people were afraid of them. In modern terms they are fairly straightforwarrd and simple. We had 2 and put hundreds of thousands of often very hard trouble free miles on them over about a dozen years as most of the other enthusiasts did at the time . I would build another 2000 Z24 in a second.

But.. There's no good reason to consider a knocking one when you don't have to.

Ecotec is the answer here.

In reply to Suprf1y :

Absolutely.  Techs never fix the ones that don't break.

Yes, Robbie, this is very nice:

I Doubt I could make that work within challenge budget, but It is cool as heck.

Indy Guy, yeah, I'd consider a DOHC Saturn if I could find one. Running examples are getting pretty thin on the ground around here (TN).

I can say the knocking Quad 4 is definitively out of the running.

My cousin had a Sunfire GT that was his commuter car to college (approximately 40 mile drive one way) and he ran it low on oil, cooked the number three rod bearing.

His dad finds a replacement in the you pull, swaps it in a weekend, tells my cousin to keep an eye on the oil.

He doesn't.

Cooks #3 again.

The only way I would buy an engine that I know is knocking, is that the price was whatever the going rate was for a case is Pepsi.