Learn me: Honda Elements- 10 yrs after the previous thread

So you may have seen my thread about the truck getting totaled, and some of the ideas I was considering for a replacement.  

After looking around I've decided to go a different route for the near term. I figure once my son fixes the Ram, I can "borrow" it when needed for towing and truck stuff, so that opens up some possibilities for non-truck vehicles. After looking at ads for MINI, Focus, Vibe, Forester, and others I think I may have settled on the Honda Element. It will work great for mountain bikes, snowboards, hockey gear, fishing, and other activities.

I found this thread: 2012 element thread

I also done some reading online, and wanted to know what new info this group may have to offer. 

Im looking at early 2000's with manual trans and 170k - 224k miles that are priced between $3500-4500. Some are awd and some are fwd only. 

Anything model specific to watch for at that age and mileage?

You'll get your catalytic converter stolen.

Not kidding, my friend's dad has had his element's cat stolen multiple times.

Get a cat guard as pointed out. Drive a manual before you get set on wanting one. It's an odd position manual, and gets old quick. Most manual cars you rest your right hand on the stick while driving, not these since it's up high. You're constantly moving your hand from steering wheel to shifter. 

As mentioned, these were getting the cats stolen before cat theft was cool.


Also, was just taking to a friend about an issue with fuel leakage issues who was told the fuel tank supposedly needed to be replaced to fix the issue was prohibitively expensive and now, NLA.   I didn't get to inspect the vehicle myself, however, so there may be a cheaper fix, or the shop may be full of it.   I suggested getting a second opinion, and haven't heard back from her yet.

I miss my 2008 SC, 

I've had two.

My first was a 2007 SC with the 5 speed. Great car. 

My current driver is a 2011 AWD with automatic. Also a great car.

Mainly what you have to know about Elements is the suspension gets klunky as they age and requires refreshing. My '11 had 160k miles on it when I bought it and with the AWD there was a lot of noise under there. I wound up doing normal stuff like ball joints and sway bar end links, etc. Nothing to get shook about. A few hundred spent at Rock Auto. Now it's quiet and smooth again. Valves need adjustment on 100k mile intervals. Flush the trans if it's an auto. Change the rear diff oil if it's an AWD. Typical stuff that applies to any Honda.

I think they are one of the greatest cars of all Honda history. I'm a large guy and ride a large bike. An Element swallows both my road bike and my mountain bikes without any drama or disassembly. I just roll them in and lean them on the sidewall. First thing I did on both my Elements was remove the rear seats and store them in my attic. I treat the car like a cargo van from that point forward with several sheets of heavy cardboard in the floor to protect it. Then I haul pretty much any and everything from my junkyard adventures short of an engine or trans. I wouldn't want to spill fluids in the cargo bay so I use my truck for those types of hauls.

Both my SC and the current one, which I think is an EX ,had damn good factory sound systems. They have amps and a subwoofer and sound just fine to my old ears. I'm halfway deaf from decades of fire trucks so I value a robust system. I use an AUX cable to tie my phone into the factory plug on the stereo. I do not have modern bluetoof stuff like hands free though. I don't talk on the phone more than once a week anyway so it's not my thing. I just Spotify on my commute to and fro work.

I know the danger of cat theft on these. I tend to park in safer areas and (knock on wood) I haven't had any troubles with theft. I'm more worried about my daughter who parks her CRV in dorm parking at college. If either of them gets stolen I will order up some aftermarket stuff from Rockauto and move forward with life.

I love mine, and have been documenting it in this thread all about my Honda Element.

Here's a couple I'm considering:

This one hasn't replied to my message, but I just noticed the passenger door seems to be damaged worse than I thought when first reviewing the ad:

AWD, 5spd, 169k miles

I have some questions about the sellers name, but I know some people that use aliases on FB - FWD, 5spd, 187k miles

this one's higher miles, but closer to home: AWD, 5spd, 224k miles

Any thoughts on them or red flags anyone sees, other than being owned by a famous designer

I have two now. Both under 200k miles.

We have had Ella ('03 5-spd) since 2006. It's my wife's car and I have not been able to convince her to get a newer car. It has needed nothing except regular maintenance other than having the front crank seal replaced a few years ago for an annoying, but non-critical leak. I'd drive it anywhere confidently.

I bought Debbie last year ('03 auto). The cat had been stolen and the seller though it would cost thousands to replace. I got one for under $200 and welded it in. With the new cat I found that it had a tendency for the coolant temp to surge and it occasionally misfired on #3. After analysis I determined it was a head gasket leak or slightly cracked head. I planned to get a JDM engine replacement, but poured some head gasket sealer in the coolant and it has been fine ever since. Searching the issue i found that it is not uncommon for these to have that issue if they have ever overheated. *The seller had just replaced the radiator hoses before I bought it, so it probably had overheated on them with coolant loss. 

Other minor issues: Front control arm bushings "Compliance Bushing" can wear quickly compared to other parts. Instrument cluster lighting connector intermittent failure - tap the dash in the right spot and it comes on. Faded cladding - a variety of fixes, I wiped with 50% linseed + 50% mineral spirit and it was good for another 5 years.

Honda made the inexcusable error of giving us urbanites what we actually needed. They packed a massive amount of useful space into a footprint the size of a Civic. It's a true utility vehicle, whereas most SUVs are just tall station wagons.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Unfortunately, Honda gave them to us way before we all realized that we wanted them.

By the time we did, it was too late. 

Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

The problem is that Honda gave them to us way before we all realized that we wanted them.

By the time we did, it was too late. 

So why do you suppose that Honda's not giving it another go? Hyundai/Kia's increasingly eating their SUV lunches, so you'd think that it would behoove Honda to do something different.

I mean, they sort of are? The CR-V and Pilot are still some of the best selling options in their respective segments. 

I just got back from taking my wife to Best Buy. 
 

55 inch TV and I didn't even need to clean out the cargo area. 
 

Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Unfortunately, Honda gave them to us way before we all realized that we wanted them.

By the time we did, it was too late. 

I was a tech at a Honda dealer during much of the Element run.  Its funny how they have become cult classics when at the time it was always the best deal on the lot because not many people wanted them.  The people that bought them LOVED them (Accord wagon customers were also a passionate bunch).  They really were a great vehicle and super popular with animal owners.  We had 2 customers that traveled all over with show dogs that come to mind in particular.   Most of the negative comments I heard were about the styling.  Even 20 years ago most people wanted plain silver SUVs.  CRVs and Pilots sold like crazy. 

If I had a dime for every time I had to tell someone "No....You can't pressure wash the inside."

The Subaru Baja was similar.  Nobody wanted them new, but people pay a premium for them used.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

The Pilot is two feet longer than the Element and starts at $38k. The CRV is less spacious with the seats folded down and doesn't beg to be flogged the way the Element does.

In reply to logdog (Forum Supporter) :

Where was your dealership located? Part of the Element's appeal is how small and nimble it was relatively speaking. I'd feel differently if I lived in an area with more elbow room.

By the way, more Elements were sold than 1st gen Ridgelines, but they made that Albatross fly again! 

Is it sad it took a Honda Element topic to get me to sign up for a racing forum? 

I bought my 2004 with 270K miles on it in August.  A dealer was selling it for $2500.  Seemed like "F-it" money, so why not take a look?  I was hoping my son would use it in the winter because he is driving my Sportcross and I was worried about a new driver in a RWD car in the winter.  (Spoiler Alert:  He is still just driving the Lexus)

I checked out the Element and was shocked at how clean it was.  It was a one owner car, and the previous owner took good care of it - looked like it had under 100K on it.  I knew it needed wheel bearings and I brought a code reader and saw the shady dealer was trying to hide a cat code - so I assumed it would need a cat, and it did.

I've done quite a bit of work to it, although all it really needed was the wheel bearings, the a new cat ($180 Amazon) and some minor fixes.  But I basically brought everything up to snuff because this car is fantastic.  Incredible utility and I have no doubt it will easily go another 100K. 

Here are some things to look for:

Check the rear lower control arms.  Some are prone to rust at the frame and failing.  Because mine was so cheap, I expected to see a problem here but was shocked it was rust free.  Others aren't so lucky.  It seems like this and head gasket issues are the only huge red flags.

Check the cat.  Yes, they are a huge theft item and OEM is $$$$$.  But aftermarket is cheap, and at this stage, you just need it to pass smog (most areas).  I have had no issues with my aftermarket cat.  Some thefts have lead to wiring issues because the thieves cut out the O2 sensors too. I fabbed up my own cat guard even though aftermarket cats are worthless on the black market.  But I didn't want to rely on a tweaker's ability to recognize an OEM cat.  I think the threat really depends where you park regularly.

The rubber on the steering wheel separates from the metal, but this is easily fixed or can be replaced with a used Pilot Steering wheel.

The dash lights and various button lights go out like all cars, but this seems to be more prevalent in the Element.  Many bulbs are Honda specific or need to be adapted - but all cheap and easy.

Make sure the key works smoothly.  The ignition cylinder (on many Honda models apparently) fail as the miles go up.  There are work arounds or you can replace the cylinder for not too much money.

If an EX model, check the cruise control.  There are a couple different CC issues with Elements. 

There are a surprising number of leaks for a Honda (Valve Cover, VTEC gasket, VVT solenoid), but all pretty easy to replace.

I agree with the earlier posts about the suspension needing to be refreshed as the miles get higher.

If the drivers seat rocks, it is common and fairly easy to fix.

As stated, the valves need to be adjusted every 100K.  I have to admit, I was a bit shocked to learn this but did it in a couple hours.

There are 4 motor/tranny mounts that seem to fail over 100K (Primarily the rear and the tranny mount).  Cheap and easy fix.

The drivers seat will be torn.  It just will be.  I think they all failed 30 days from first purchase. 

But honestly, other than the control arm rust, it is a Honda and everything else is manageable.

I personally wouldn't get too worked up over awd or fwd.  I thought I needed awd, but the awd is kind of a joke and only marginally better than the FWD.  So unless you feel you really need awd, just get the best one you can find.

It is a silly looking car, but goddamn if it isn't useful.  I keep three seats down and one folded up.  I can still throw my mtn bike in the back without removing a wheel.  It is great for trips to Costco or HomeDepot.  Not the least bit fast, but not too slow you worry about merges.  And, if everything is in order, I actually find it fairly quiet for a rolling toaster.  Some complain about noise, but I am guessing they undiagnosed issues (wheel bearings, tires).  Strangely enough, storage cpacity is great but it is really lacking in small storage areas (center console, and the door pockets are a joke).

Mileage sucks, expect 20-22 mpg, and the tank is mall (range is under 250 miles).  But uses regular gas.

But I will admit, I see why people love this car.

I looked at the one with 224k on it today. I had concerns when I showed up about 20 minutes early and they were pressure washing the engine. 
 

Maybe I need to realign my expectations, but for $4200 asking price I was not impressed.
- There was some noise from the accessory drive, not just belt noise, but something was knocking occasionally, so probably needed and idler. 

-The engine practically stalled when the AC was turned on, and shook a lot on the mounts. 

- When looking down between the gate and cargo area a could see rust, and looking underneath revealed the rear bumper and nearby sheet metal was rusted and beyond what I really want to deal with. 

- I could smell antifreeze in then gone compartment and it got stronger as it idled while checking out the undercarriage and rest of the vehicle.

- There was a code for a misfire on cylinder 1, but no check engine light visible on the dash. 

During the test drive the brakes were spongy, front suspension noisy, and the throttle was odd, it went from rough idle to 3000rpm but nothing in between. 

In the end I decided to pass on it and continue the search. I will keep watch for more listings and see if I can arrange to see the one with 187k on Wednesday. 

Automotive ADD has kicked in while scrolling when I stumbled across this ad:

1995 trooper

I think it's cool, but may be a bit too cool for a daily driver.