Learn Me on Which Beater....

It's not about who punched who. My brother who is 25 has a 98 Nissan Altima which is on its way out. He is a pizza delivery driver so something cheap and dependable would be ideal here. He would need 4 doors as well to get his dog (pitbull mix) in and out of the back seats. It would need to be an automatic ideally (can't drive stick but would like to teach him down the road) I know older Prizms/Corollas/Civic/Sentras/Accords are the sure bets here. I see a lot of older Saturn S Series/Ions for cheap. Are they good to run as beaters? Anything else here I am missing? Here is what I have found so far just looking on Craigslist:

Saturn L200: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5433401038.html

Saturn SW Wagon: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5397609959.html

Geo Prizm: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5427868528.html

The Prizm is indestructible. I don't have experience with the Saturn, but I've heard they're also tough as nails. Of those 3, I'd pick the L200, as it's in Blue Bell...typically people with money who take care of their stuff. Plus the ad seems to be written by someone with more than a 3rd grade education. None of the guarantees anything, but it's a good first sign. Car looks pretty decent.

Prizm isn't a bad choice, being a Corolla and all. Saw one of those go 286k miles and only need minor maintenance before it got wrecked by a texting drive. The SW would be my second choice. The L-series Saturns just never seemed to live up to the originals

Chevy Cavalier. It will run poorly forever, just don't let anybody hit you.

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5441420641.html

How cheap/easy is it to get Saturn parts these days? That might have an effect on the purchase.

Wow, I wish that L200 was closer

Wagon, wagon wagon. No one has WRC/Drift/Nascar dreams when driving a wagon. No one beats the snot out of a wagon. Mom used it to get groceries, it is babied and ready for many years of service.

My personal love for cheap to buy and work on is an Escort. Also my wife had a Saturn for a while. It was great as her daily driver.

I'll add echo and Lexus LS to the mix.

pinchvalve wrote: Wagon, wagon wagon. No one has WRC/Drift/Nascar dreams when driving a wagon. No one beats the snot out of a wagon. Mom used it to get groceries, it is babied and ready for many years of service.

That is a very good point. Unless I have owned it.

Stay away from the L200. NOT reliable.

The SW2 (wagon version of the SL2/SC2) has the peppier DOHC engine compared to the SW1/SL1/SC1. Saturns use oil, so have him check it Frequently! I've daily driven an SL2 for over 14 years. VERY reliable, easy to work on, parts are CHEAP, and made in America.

I heard back from the seller of the SW and it smokes and the transmission shifts hard but it just passed inspection. Does this sound fishy?

92dxman wrote: I heard back from the seller of the SW and it smokes and the transmission shifts hard but it just passed inspection. Does this sound fishy?

Yes. The single cams have problems with piston rings sticking, causing low compression and a "fumigate the neighborhood while you drive" experience. I'm exaggerating a bit. But you want to avoid one that's a heavy oil consumer.

If you get a good one, they do seem to go forever

What's the beater budget?

Is your brother GRM and DIY?
I ask because Saturn's are good choices for GRM type but bad for those who won't check their oil or capable of fixing the small stuff.

Actually, the early Altma is great for the non GRM.
Chain driven 2.4L and generally maintenance free. Sentra could be good too if he could go smaller.

92dxman wrote: I heard back from the seller of the SW and it smokes and the transmission shifts hard but it just passed inspection. Does this sound fishy?

Let me translate CL language for you...what he was really trying to say

"It seems to burn more oil than gas. It won't shift out of third gear until fully warmed up. But since I'm shady buy here/pay here dealer I just bought inspection stickers for it".

I'd run. I never went to that dealer personally, but they put a lot of ads up for cheap junk. Plus the fact that they "just got it on trade" is their way of saying that if/when it falls apart, don't blame them.

Big advantage of the little Saturns, at least where I live: I see about 5 of them for sale for every Corolla/Prizm or Civic that pops up and the Hondas seem to be beat to hell.

The S series Saturns are cheap to buy and easy to work on. Parts cost and availability isn't a problem. They seem to be all over so finding a good one shouldn't be hard. They also have the advantage of plastic body panels which means no body rust... just check the subframes. As others have said, you just gotta know the quirks but the "quirks" are easy to learn. Check the oil, don't spin the wheels on ice, etc. and they are great reliable cars.

Bonus if you can find one with a new or rebuilt engine that's been looked after by a "Saturn guy."

LuxInterior wrote:

92dxman wrote: I heard back from the seller of the SW and it smokes and the transmission shifts hard but it just passed inspection. Does this sound fishy?

Yes. The single cams have problems with piston rings sticking, causing low compression and a "fumigate the neighborhood while you drive" experience. I'm exaggerating a bit. But you want to avoid one that's a heavy oil consumer. If you get a good one, they do seem to go forever What's the beater budget?

The one linked to in the OP has the dual over head cam engine. And actually both the DOHC & SOHC motors tend to have sticky oil retention rings, hence they use (burn) oil. Some worse than others, but you MUST check and top up the oil on them ALL. There is a fix for it. It's called an MMO soak (Marvel Mystery Oil) do a google search, you'll find it quick. The Saturn platform is great for the do it yourselfer, willing to turn a wrench.

92dxman wrote: I heard back from the seller of the SW and it smokes and the transmission shifts hard but it just passed inspection. Does this sound fishy?

Sounds like normal symptoms of an old Saturn. Trans likely has a clogged up valve body. Cheap and relatively simple fix. Valve body is right on top of the trans under the battery. If the shifting is really fubared, the input shaft nut has likely come loose. Cheaper fix, but more to take apart. Can get to it from the wheel well.

Oil burning/smoke, totally normal. ATF soak will minimize it, but it will never go away completely unless you want to pull the pistons and drill drainback holes in them. The majority of them burn a little bit of oil, but not a crazy amount. Just check it and keep it topped off.

The car will still run forever without fixing either of those issues. Everything on it is easy to work on and easy to source parts for.

Stay away from the L-series.

That Prism is likely also a good car. I looked for one of those when I bought my last Saturn. Biggest issue was the rear fenders rust pretty easily on them. And usually they are priced 2-3x what a Saturn in the same condition is.

Saturn L series are Saturns in name only and are not as bullet proof as an S series. The L is based on an Opel design or something like that.

The S series automatic can develop a condition called "reverse slam" Early onset of reverse slam is repairable with a fluid change and a simple procedure to exercise the reverse hydraulic gizmo's.

A stick shift Saturn S series will last forever if maintained and nearly forever if not maintained. ..The only real concern is keeping an eye on the oil level.

Look over here for a Great deal on an automatic Wagon, the maroon one, LOW miles for a Saturn, plus a lot of the miles were probably from flat towing.

I wouldn't say my brother is good with a wrench but he is a DIY kinda person. He told me his budget is 1500 max. I emailed about the Prizm and it has a 3-4 inch rust spot on one side. I also emailed about the wagon and the smoke is probably the common issue mentioned above.

I would have bought that prizm already at those miles and that price. It'll probably need a good italian tune-up being a short distance commuter for so long but it should give you another 100K of service provided it doesn't rust out first.

How are Cavaliers/Sunfires?

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5422271880.html

Others:

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5407357962.html

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5405746985.html

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5442524014.html

92dxman wrote: How are Cavaliers/Sunfires? http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5422271880.html Others: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5407357962.html http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5405746985.html http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/5442524014.html

I'd think the gold/beige Saturn SL1 is definitely worth a look, especially at that price.

In reply to 92dxman:

Have him buy this one: the saturn SL1, It's VERY low miles.

Looks pretty clean, and will EASILY go another 100k miles.