So, any reason for us all not to have 2019 EB F150 XLTs with the tow package and about 85k miles?
Maybe asking for a friend with an aging TDI Touareg....
So, any reason for us all not to have 2019 EB F150 XLTs with the tow package and about 85k miles?
Maybe asking for a friend with an aging TDI Touareg....
93gsxturbo said:The 3.5 is the best motor for the F150 by leagues. The 2.7 and 5.0 are underpowered in comparison, but at least the 2.7 returns in theory decent MPG even though real world MPG figures are like 1-2 MPG better for 100 or more less horsepower. Not worth it in my opinion.
"Underpowered" is very relative and subjective. The 5.0 and 2.7 both blow away the old mod-motor 4.6s and 5.4s, and people got by for many years with those. It's not like you won't be able to keep up with traffic unless you get the 3.5.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:93gsxturbo said:The 3.5 is the best motor for the F150 by leagues. The 2.7 and 5.0 are underpowered in comparison, but at least the 2.7 returns in theory decent MPG even though real world MPG figures are like 1-2 MPG better for 100 or more less horsepower. Not worth it in my opinion.
"Underpowered" is very relative and subjective. The 5.0 and 2.7 both blow away the old mod-motor 4.6s and 5.4s, and people got by for many years with those. It's not like you won't be able to keep up with traffic unless you get the 3.5.
I grew up with 352 and 360" FE's. Dead nuts reliable but extremely thirsty and S-L-O-W. 
When discussing mpg differences, not all mpg are created equal.
Consider two drivers going the same distance.
Driver A is choosing between a car getting 40 mpg and a car getting 60 mpg... A whopping 20 mpg (50%) better.
Driver B is choosing between a truck getting 10 mpg and a truck getting 11 mpg... Only 1 mpg (10%) better.
Which mpg difference has the greater effect?
Looking at the 'only 2mpg' fuelly difference of 16mpg for the 3.5/5.0 and 18mpg of the 2.7, that's still more significant than 25 mpg vs 30 mpg, or 40 mpg vs 55 mpg.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:93gsxturbo said:The 3.5 is the best motor for the F150 by leagues. The 2.7 and 5.0 are underpowered in comparison, but at least the 2.7 returns in theory decent MPG even though real world MPG figures are like 1-2 MPG better for 100 or more less horsepower. Not worth it in my opinion.
"Underpowered" is very relative and subjective. The 5.0 and 2.7 both blow away the old mod-motor 4.6s and 5.4s, and people got by for many years with those. It's not like you won't be able to keep up with traffic unless you get the 3.5.
I find the 3.3 to be perfectly adequate aside from apparently not being available with 4wd.
The 3.3 is waaaay more powerful than trucks used to have even as upgrade engines, and we don't have 4 speed transmissions either.
Fueled by Caffeine said:In reply to wearymicrobe :
They do have cam phaser issues and oil burning issues. But hell if they don't sound great.
They don't all sound great. Mine sounds like ass- absolutely terrible. I've had 4 different exhaust systems on it- no better.
In reply to SV reX :
Was referring to 5.0. I think it sounds great
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
I was also referring to the 5.0.
The 5.0 Coyote can sound horrible under load.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:93gsxturbo said:The 3.5 is the best motor for the F150 by leagues. The 2.7 and 5.0 are underpowered in comparison, but at least the 2.7 returns in theory decent MPG even though real world MPG figures are like 1-2 MPG better for 100 or more less horsepower. Not worth it in my opinion.
"Underpowered" is very relative and subjective. The 5.0 and 2.7 both blow away the old mod-motor 4.6s and 5.4s, and people got by for many years with those. It's not like you won't be able to keep up with traffic unless you get the 3.5.
I find the 3.3 to be perfectly adequate aside from apparently not being available with 4wd.
The 3.3 is waaaay more powerful than trucks used to have even as upgrade engines, and we don't have 4 speed transmissions either.
I have a 4wd 3.3L.
To add an example of why I find it underpowered: I towed a 23ft boat from Florida to VA, not a heavy boat either. On I-95 I was firmly in the right lane and to maintain right lane speeds, the trans would hunt between 8th (immediately lose speed), and then 7th (sometimes this is where she'd hold until it would give 8th a shot again), and sometimes down to 6th. Motor was screaming. I eventually locked it out of 8th so it just hunted between 6th and 7th, but it just felt "unhappy". Fuel mileage was single digits. Truck came with the standard (tiny, 23 gal) tank, so we got a tank of gas what felt like every 5th exit.
I haven't scaled that boat/trailer, but 5,500lb, max, would be my best guess. If you never had to tow anything, 3.3 is perfect.
In reply to SV reX :
Haha. Different strokes.
I had a 2013 3.5EB until around 150k. Good strong motor as every noted, and the 6 speed transmission was fine. I never had the cam phaser issues but I did have plenty of issues with exhaust leaks, coolant leaks, oil leaks, etc. It wasn't hard to just keep filling the oil and coolant but I got tired of breathing exhaust and it would have been a pretty major job to address everything so I eventually sold it. I'm actually considering a newer Ranger with the 2.7EB and hoping that most of this stuff won't be an issue.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:I had a 2013 3.5EB until around 150k. Good strong motor as every noted, and the 6 speed transmission was fine. I never had the cam phaser issues but I did have plenty of issues with exhaust leaks, coolant leaks, oil leaks, etc. It wasn't hard to just keep filling the oil and coolant but I got tired of breathing exhaust and it would have been a pretty major job to address everything so I eventually sold it. I'm actually considering a newer Ranger with the 2.7EB and hoping that most of this stuff won't be an issue.
I don't think the 2.7 was offered in the Ranger until this year's refresh, so anything older than 2024 will have the 2.3 four banger Ecoboost.
Gas at 3 bucks a gallon, 16 MPG for the 3.5 and 18 MPG for the 2.7, over 100k miles you are talking $2k in fuel difference
Gas at 6 bucks a gallon, you are talking $4200 in fuel difference over 100k miles.
12,000 miles per year/$3 per gallon/16v18 MPG you are at $250 difference in fuel cost per year.
If someone comes to you and says "I can give you 100HP and 150 ft/lbs of torque for $0.68/day", thats the cheapest horsepower for dollar anyone will ever realize.
Spearfishin said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:93gsxturbo said:The 3.5 is the best motor for the F150 by leagues. The 2.7 and 5.0 are underpowered in comparison, but at least the 2.7 returns in theory decent MPG even though real world MPG figures are like 1-2 MPG better for 100 or more less horsepower. Not worth it in my opinion.
"Underpowered" is very relative and subjective. The 5.0 and 2.7 both blow away the old mod-motor 4.6s and 5.4s, and people got by for many years with those. It's not like you won't be able to keep up with traffic unless you get the 3.5.
I find the 3.3 to be perfectly adequate aside from apparently not being available with 4wd.
The 3.3 is waaaay more powerful than trucks used to have even as upgrade engines, and we don't have 4 speed transmissions either.
I have a 4wd 3.3L.
To add an example of why I find it underpowered: I towed a 23ft boat from Florida to VA, not a heavy boat either. On I-95 I was firmly in the right lane and to maintain right lane speeds, the trans would hunt between 8th (immediately lose speed), and then 7th (sometimes this is where she'd hold until it would give 8th a shot again), and sometimes down to 6th. Motor was screaming. I eventually locked it out of 8th so it just hunted between 6th and 7th, but it just felt "unhappy". Fuel mileage was single digits. Truck came with the standard (tiny, 23 gal) tank, so we got a tank of gas what felt like every 5th exit.
I haven't scaled that boat/trailer, but 5,500lb, max, would be my best guess. If you never had to tow anything, 3.3 is perfect.
This was with the 2.7?
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
It's 75 HP and 100 lbft of torque.
I spend about $15k per year on fuel so I'll take the 3-4 mpg over the HP and torque I don't need.
Between the fuel saved, the fact that the 3.5 EB is $2500-$4000 extra over the 2.7 on the local used market, and the fewer repairs, it's a no-brainer. That's $6k or more in my pocket over the life of the truck.
Toyman! said:In reply to 93gsxturbo :
It's 75 HP and 100 lbft of torque.
It's actually only 50/70, which is less than I was picturing. The 3.5 got a bump up in the last few years, in pre-covid trucks it was 375/470.
In reply to dps214 :
The major engine change for the F150 happened in 2018, when it went from DI only to PF-DI to make more power. Which didn't make it to the vans (and may never make it).
Toyman! said:In reply to 93gsxturbo :
It's 75 HP and 100 lbft of torque.
I spend about $15k per year on fuel so I'll take the 3-4 mpg over the HP and torque I don't need.
Between the fuel saved, the fact that the 3.5 EB is $2500-$4000 extra over the 2.7 on the local used market, and the fewer repairs, it's a no-brainer. That's $6k or more in my pocket over the life of the truck.
Its not 3-4 MPG and you can't argue that HP/Dollar and Towing Capacity/Dollar there isn't a more effective strategy than just buying a 3.5 to begin with.
Sorry bro.
yupididit said:Spearfishin said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:93gsxturbo said:The 3.5 is the best motor for the F150 by leagues. The 2.7 and 5.0 are underpowered in comparison, but at least the 2.7 returns in theory decent MPG even though real world MPG figures are like 1-2 MPG better for 100 or more less horsepower. Not worth it in my opinion.
"Underpowered" is very relative and subjective. The 5.0 and 2.7 both blow away the old mod-motor 4.6s and 5.4s, and people got by for many years with those. It's not like you won't be able to keep up with traffic unless you get the 3.5.
I find the 3.3 to be perfectly adequate aside from apparently not being available with 4wd.
The 3.3 is waaaay more powerful than trucks used to have even as upgrade engines, and we don't have 4 speed transmissions either.
I have a 4wd 3.3L.
To add an example of why I find it underpowered: I towed a 23ft boat from Florida to VA, not a heavy boat either. On I-95 I was firmly in the right lane and to maintain right lane speeds, the trans would hunt between 8th (immediately lose speed), and then 7th (sometimes this is where she'd hold until it would give 8th a shot again), and sometimes down to 6th. Motor was screaming. I eventually locked it out of 8th so it just hunted between 6th and 7th, but it just felt "unhappy". Fuel mileage was single digits. Truck came with the standard (tiny, 23 gal) tank, so we got a tank of gas what felt like every 5th exit.
I haven't scaled that boat/trailer, but 5,500lb, max, would be my best guess. If you never had to tow anything, 3.3 is perfect.
This was with the 2.7?
3.3L NA. It's the "base" engine. My truck is a '21 XL with the only options being 4wd, some sort of heavy payload package and power windows. It's otherwise as stripped as they get.
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
Actually it is 3-4 mpg. Look up fuelly for the 2018 model year. The 3.5 even averages around 16. The 2.7 is 20.
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
From my perspective that all added up to noticeably more money for the truck itself, noticeably more money for fuel over the life of the truck, and noticeably greater likelihood of more money for 'unexpected' repairs over the life of the truck, all in exchange for some numbers on paper that make little-to-no difference 99.9% of the time.
Sure the WOT power and torque looks and sounds like a big deal, and thus emotionally sway many opinions and decisions, yet actually driving them back-to-back I found them to be anything but. From those with any first hand experience in both, myself included, it seems to be generally agreed that there is minimal discernible difference between how the 3.5 and 2.7 drive on the street. Some even go so far as to claim that, if anything, the 2.7 actually feels slightly more responsive than the 3.5.
Those I came across that had done significant towing with both, also noted them still feeling far more alike than not in mild-to-moderate towing. It's not until getting into more extreme towing conditions that the 3.5 really starts pulling away from the 2.7, both literally and figuratively. Based on my experience towing travel trailers thousands of miles in and around the (Cascade) mountains with the 2.7, I've never asked for more than it could provide.
If you haven't driven both for yourself, I'd highly recommend it.
In reply to 93gsxturbo :
The 2022 F150 3.5 my brother drives gets a real-world 18-19 mpg around town and 22-24 on the highway. Towing his 18' boat, he gets 10-11.
My 2017 F150 2.7 gets a real-world 21-22 around town and 25-27 on the highway. Towing a 14' enclosed trailer it gets 14, towing a 18' open trailer loaded with materials, it gets 18.
That's 3-4 mpg any way you look at it, on two trucks in similar conditions and locations. Add to that mine is driven by an employee who doesn't particularly care about fuel economy and my brother's truck is driven by a 62-year-old.
The total shop time for my 2.7 is zero beyond oil changes. Total shop time for my brothers 3.5? Days replacing exhaust manifolds and dealing with coolant leaks around the turbochargers. That's $$$$ out of my pocket even if I don't count the downtime. A truck in the shop makes $0.
Why would I argue HP/dollar or towing/dollar when I don't really care about the HP and never tow more than 5000 pounds?
I'm more interested in the actual $$$ returned on the investment since that's $$$ out of my pocket across a fleet of 5 trucks. $6k times 5 trucks is $30k dollars that I can use for a much better purpose than dumping it out of the exhaust to get to 60 mph .3 seconds faster. I want the most capable and efficient tool that will go 300k miles with the fewest problems. While the 3.5 EB is an impressive engine, it is not that tool. It's less efficient and less reliable over the long haul.
Sorry bro.
In reply to Toyman! :
Pity I can only upvote once.
alfadriver said:In reply to dps214 :
The major engine change for the F150 happened in 2018, when it went from DI only to PF-DI to make more power. Which didn't make it to the vans (and may never make it).
Huh? My 2020 T250 AWD has the PFDI 3.5.
alfadriver said:In reply to dps214 :
The major engine change for the F150 happened in 2018, when it went from DI only to PF-DI to make more power. Which didn't make it to the vans (and may never make it).
Yes that was when the DI to multi-injection change happened, but the truck engines were still rated 375/470 until 2021/22 when they were upgraded to 400/500.
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