You'll probably be fine. Atkins tends to use a lot of paper gaskets in places in there rebuild kit where I would use OEM gasket or RTV.

I can't speak for their o-ring kit but don't use their solid corner seals.

I did build Esteys engine with those and its fine but I'm not a fan of them from that experience.

They remind me of corksport, it sounds good, looks good, price is good but its like they designed the part on the computer and never tested the fitment in real world so everything is just a little off and that makes it hard to install or I hate when you have to modify a new part to fit because they didn't design it well.

the intake manifold I got from atkins was miserable, scratched gasket surface from bad packaging, the blind hole went INTO the runner, casting flash/debris still present within the manifold, carb footprint wasn't exactly round (more like egg shaped) I brought this to their attention and they ignored me.

My understanding of the Atkins corner seals is that they need to be clearanced to work properly. They shouldn't be used as delivered. Friend had a hot start issue after a brand new build with them. They hadn't been clearanced and were pinching the apex seals when hot. Let it cool and they would release. Really hard to diagnose.

Mine has none of those issues and has been a total rock star as long as I feed it enough fuel.

I never had any problems with the Atkins corner seals in the engine that I rebuilt, and hadn't ever heard about there being issues with them. At least when I was researching it some 7 years ago, theirs were the way to go from what I could find...

DaveEstey wrote: My understanding of the Atkins corner seals is that they need to be clearanced to work properly. They shouldn't be used as delivered. Friend had a hot start issue after a brand new build with them. They hadn't been clearanced and were pinching the apex seals when hot. Let it cool and they would release. Really hard to diagnose. Mine has none of those issues and has been a total rock star as long as I feed it enough fuel.

The atkins solid corner seals fit their apex seals TIGHT but it was still moveable, when I tried to use their corner seals on BNIB OEM apex seals they would only go on part way.

All items mentioned above were BNIB items too.

Its just such a simple piece, I'm surprised they sucked at manufacturing it. I wonder if their machine is off/requires calibration. Problem with rotaries is that their tolerances are all within .001"

I don't want to clearance brand new parts (except side seals, because that's how they are) you have to take a small file and its a nuisance that shouldn't be there to begin with. I could keep ranting but all in all, I'm done with them. Bad quality, bad customer service, good intentions with poor execution.

If you are welding the iron, make sure you are using nickel rod made for cast iron welding. I welded the ear on my rear iron 5 years ago and it is still fine. V'd out the iron several tacks with it jigged up and then filled in. No movement and rock solid.

Looks like a moot point. Motor didn't pass coolant system test. Boo.

horde all the parts!

Current inventory:

1 running 1983 12A carb'd (in 1st gen race car)

1 running 1987 13B NA (in race car)

1 1987/89 13B NA in process of being rebuilt

1 S4 13B NA with broken front iron and failed coolant system

1 S4 TII Complete engine with unknown failure - next in line for rebuild

1 S4 TII with apex seal failure and 1 destroyed housing.

I think I have all the manifolds, computers, and wiring harness for ALL of these engines.

Rotary Hoarding level: Beginner.

I still really wish I'd been able to (or smart enough to- but in reality I DID NOT have the space...) keep the junkyard 13B that I pulled out of my old FC3C when I rebuilt and swapped back in its original engine. I've long said if the D's PRV ever gives up the ghost that I want to put a rotary in the back of it like it was supposed to have when it was being designed.

In reply to wvumtnbkr:

At least rotary engines are small, so you can stack a lot more of them on a shelf.

HOW THE berkeley DO YOU INSTALL THE OIL CONTROL RINGS?

ARGGGHHHHH!

This is a good rebuild video and should help with your problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijJeUk_GqiI

okay, here is my update...

The one oil control ring was fubar'd. That was why it was soo hard.

The engine was reassembled with new oil control o rings, new apex seals, new corner seal plugs and used everything else.

The housings and the front and rear iron are in spec. The middle iron was fubar'd due to the o ring groove breaking out. I used another used iron i had to complete the rebuild.

The car was hard to start at first and took lots of playing with the throttle and the fuel pump and jump starting etc...

I got the car to idle and start regularly for awhile.

That pretty much brings us up to date...

However, today the car wouldn't start. I need to check the compression to see what it is.

What is a good number for compression with NEW apex seals and used rotor housings?

Rob R.

In reply to wvumtnbkr:

With my cheapo standard compression gauge, I never saw more than about 90psi, new seals, everything else used.

You are probably already aware, but you need the motor spinning as fast as possible to build compression. So weak battery, starter, poor connections can seriously impair starting.

I have never once had an issue with starting a rebuild, whether with new or used apex seals. Most of the time they started on the first crank, the rest of the time I forgot something important like connecting the distributor or something.

I suspect a lot of the "new rotaries don't start" myth is people not clearancing apex seals. They DO need to be clearanced for length. They're overlong. You bleed off compression until the sides wear in if you don't clearance them.

BTW - Current engine has Atkins seals. The cheap ones, not the cryo-treated ones. Something like 40k miles on an engine that zings to five figures on a regular basis and my driving style is "heavy throttle and shift early" in traffic (it's a bridge port thing, they don't like light throttle) and everything is just fine. Previous set of Atkins seals went 60k miles and through two-three different engines before they died of dust intrusion. (They were 1.6mm wide in spots...)

hmmm. yep, I did not clearance the new apex seals. I imagine it pushes the little triangle end in which also pushes the triangle end down and then there is no seal on the upper corner of the combustion chamber.

Does that sound about right?

I drove the car for about 10 miles last night through various RPM and let it idle for about 2 hours at 1200 rpm.

The car started after a bit of cranking this morning and it idled for about 20 minutes. I am going to try to drive it about 10 miles this afternoon and let it idle at 1200 rpm for 2 or 3 hours.

My issue is that this is a spare motor for the race car. It is in a "street car" right now. My race is next week (leaving Wednesday). That means I need to finish braking this in, pull it, organize all of my race stuff, pack, and head out.... While making sure I finish all of the tasks my wife wants me to finish.

Any ideas on how to break this in quicker so I can make sure it has good compression before I pull it on Sunday?

Thanks!

Rob R.

sevenracer wrote: In reply to wvumtnbkr: With my cheapo standard compression gauge, I never saw more than about 90psi, new seals, everything else used. You are probably already aware, but you need the motor spinning as fast as possible to build compression. So weak battery, starter, poor connections can seriously impair starting.

This is very true. Also take the test warm.

I would expect about 100psi for a rebuild with misc used parts. pretty common.

Depends a lot on the tester, too. A tester with a long hose will read lower.

sooo, what is the quickest way to get this thing broken in? I only haev a few days/ afternoons to get this done.

Thanks!

Rob R.

Did you use new bearings?

If you used new bearings, drive it ~1000-1200 miles. I've done 300 mile nights getting an engine ready for a race the next weekend.

If you used used bearings, if it doesn't leak any fluids, just race it.

Sweet! Thanks for the input!

Rob R.

I started the engine on the second crank. I pulled it and trans in 1 hour with help. Hopefully, I don't need it. Will report back if I do.

Thanks!

Rob R.